$1,300 per Bitcoin: Fortress Has New Buyout - U.Today

ETX officially announced to change the algorithm, here is a straightforward analysis about the influence

ETX officially announced to change the algorithm, here is a straightforward analysis about the influence
More dispersed computing power, which means that the coins will be further dispersed, and the value will be less controlled and influenced by a few people who controlled many coins. From the above examples of Monero and Monero Classic , we can see that changing the algorithm is a great positive signal for ordinary community users
According to the latest announcement on the official website of Ethereumx·NET (ETX), "Notice about the upcoming change of ETX algorithm and the opening of the testnet '', ETX will change the algorithm within the next 1-2 months. The reason is that the current large computing power miners pose a threat to ETX's long-term ecological planning in the future, because the large computing power mining has caused a very high concentration of chips. This can be seen through the blockchain browser. The future It may take time to balance the number of head coin holders and slowly digest with price space and time.

https://preview.redd.it/xtfbx9wbe6b51.png?width=624&format=png&auto=webp&s=386ccbcb51a658db2db07609152406df1c0927e3
Just like Bitcoin, there were only a few people digging with a computer at the beginning. Later, as the market slowly became aware, and then derived the ASIC algorithm mining machine, as the price increased, some head currency holders slowly reduced their holdings, and slowly reduced the threat they posed to Bitcoin. But even so, there are still an unsolved 200,000 bitcoins in MtGox. Some people even predict that when MtGox closes the case, it will be the crash day of Bitcoin.
It’s impossible for a new currency to go the way which Bitcoin had passed. The market competition environment today is completely different. There are endless new currencies appearing every day, so at the appropriate time to avoid the risk of expanding and taking the lead is necessary. This may be the reason why the ETX development team decided to change the algorithm.
There are many currencies that have changed the algorithm, and most of the results are relatively good. For example, Monero (XMR), Monero should be the most successful currency to resist the ASIC algorithm. In the process of fighting with ASIC repeatedly, without exception, the mining machine manufacturers were expelled from the door, ensuring many communities. But Monroe Classic has retained the ASIC-friendly algorithm because it has not changed the algorithm, and almost no one is interested today. We can get a glimpse of their straightforward price performance in the chart below.

  1. Monero with repeated algorithm changes

XMR's price with frequent algorithm changes, data source Coinmarketcap

  1. Asic algorithm-friendly (unchanged algorithm) Monero Classic

XMC’s price with no algorithm changes, data source Coinmarketcap
More decentralized computing power means that the coins are further dispersed, and the value can be less controlled and influenced by a few people. From the examples of Monroe and Monroe Classic above, we can see that changing the algorithm is a great positive signal to the ordinary community users. And the announcement on the official website mentioned that the testnet will be launched before the end of this month, and anyone who’s interested can go to have a look.
ETX developers take precautionary measures ahead of time, which is a manifestation of responsibility for all community users.
Refer to
Ethereumx·NET " Notice about the upcoming change of ETX algorithm and the opening of the testnet "
Coinmarketcap
Monero: GetMonero
*There are risks in the market, this article is not intended as investment advice
submitted by BitRay2077 to u/BitRay2077 [link] [comments]

Technical: A Brief History of Payment Channels: from Satoshi to Lightning Network

Who cares about political tweets from some random country's president when payment channels are a much more interesting and are actually capable of carrying value?
So let's have a short history of various payment channel techs!

Generation 0: Satoshi's Broken nSequence Channels

Because Satoshi's Vision included payment channels, except his implementation sucked so hard we had to go fix it and added RBF as a by-product.
Originally, the plan for nSequence was that mempools would replace any transaction spending certain inputs with another transaction spending the same inputs, but only if the nSequence field of the replacement was larger.
Since 0xFFFFFFFF was the highest value that nSequence could get, this would mark a transaction as "final" and not replaceable on the mempool anymore.
In fact, this "nSequence channel" I will describe is the reason why we have this weird rule about nLockTime and nSequence. nLockTime actually only works if nSequence is not 0xFFFFFFFF i.e. final. If nSequence is 0xFFFFFFFF then nLockTime is ignored, because this if the "final" version of the transaction.
So what you'd do would be something like this:
  1. You go to a bar and promise the bartender to pay by the time the bar closes. Because this is the Bitcoin universe, time is measured in blockheight, so the closing time of the bar is indicated as some future blockheight.
  2. For your first drink, you'd make a transaction paying to the bartender for that drink, paying from some coins you have. The transaction has an nLockTime equal to the closing time of the bar, and a starting nSequence of 0. You hand over the transaction and the bartender hands you your drink.
  3. For your succeeding drink, you'd remake the same transaction, adding the payment for that drink to the transaction output that goes to the bartender (so that output keeps getting larger, by the amount of payment), and having an nSequence that is one higher than the previous one.
  4. Eventually you have to stop drinking. It comes down to one of two possibilities:
    • You drink until the bar closes. Since it is now the nLockTime indicated in the transaction, the bartender is able to broadcast the latest transaction and tells the bouncers to kick you out of the bar.
    • You wisely consider the state of your liver. So you re-sign the last transaction with a "final" nSequence of 0xFFFFFFFF i.e. the maximum possible value it can have. This allows the bartender to get his or her funds immediately (nLockTime is ignored if nSequence is 0xFFFFFFFF), so he or she tells the bouncers to let you out of the bar.
Now that of course is a payment channel. Individual payments (purchases of alcohol, so I guess buying coffee is not in scope for payment channels). Closing is done by creating a "final" transaction that is the sum of the individual payments. Sure there's no routing and channels are unidirectional and channels have a maximum lifetime but give Satoshi a break, he was also busy inventing Bitcoin at the time.
Now if you noticed I called this kind of payment channel "broken". This is because the mempool rules are not consensus rules, and cannot be validated (nothing about the mempool can be validated onchain: I sigh every time somebody proposes "let's make block size dependent on mempool size", mempool state cannot be validated by onchain data). Fullnodes can't see all of the transactions you signed, and then validate that the final one with the maximum nSequence is the one that actually is used onchain. So you can do the below:
  1. Become friends with Jihan Wu, because he owns >51% of the mining hashrate (he totally reorged Bitcoin to reverse the Binance hack right?).
  2. Slip Jihan Wu some of the more interesting drinks you're ordering as an incentive to cooperate with you. So say you end up ordering 100 drinks, you split it with Jihan Wu and give him 50 of the drinks.
  3. When the bar closes, Jihan Wu quickly calls his mining rig and tells them to mine the version of your transaction with nSequence 0. You know, that first one where you pay for only one drink.
  4. Because fullnodes cannot validate nSequence, they'll accept even the nSequence=0 version and confirm it, immutably adding you paying for a single alcoholic drink to the blockchain.
  5. The bartender, pissed at being cheated, takes out a shotgun from under the bar and shoots at you and Jihan Wu.
  6. Jihan Wu uses his mystical chi powers (actually the combined exhaust from all of his mining rigs) to slow down the shotgun pellets, making them hit you as softly as petals drifting in the wind.
  7. The bartender mutters some words, clothes ripping apart as he or she (hard to believe it could be a she but hey) turns into a bear, ready to maul you for cheating him or her of the payment for all the 100 drinks you ordered from him or her.
  8. Steely-eyed, you stand in front of the bartender-turned-bear, daring him to touch you. You've watched Revenant, you know Leonardo di Caprio could survive a bear mauling, and if some posh actor can survive that, you know you can too. You make a pose. "Drunken troll logic attack!"
  9. I think I got sidetracked here.
Lessons learned?

Spilman Channels

Incentive-compatible time-limited unidirectional channel; or, Satoshi's Vision, Fixed (if transaction malleability hadn't been a problem, that is).
Now, we know the bartender will turn into a bear and maul you if you try to cheat the payment channel, and now that we've revealed you're good friends with Jihan Wu, the bartender will no longer accept a payment channel scheme that lets one you cooperate with a miner to cheat the bartender.
Fortunately, Jeremy Spilman proposed a better way that would not let you cheat the bartender.
First, you and the bartender perform this ritual:
  1. You get some funds and create a transaction that pays to a 2-of-2 multisig between you and the bartender. You don't broadcast this yet: you just sign it and get its txid.
  2. You create another transaction that spends the above transaction. This transaction (the "backoff") has an nLockTime equal to the closing time of the bar, plus one block. You sign it and give this backoff transaction (but not the above transaction) to the bartender.
  3. The bartender signs the backoff and gives it back to you. It is now valid since it's spending a 2-of-2 of you and the bartender, and both of you have signed the backoff transaction.
  4. Now you broadcast the first transaction onchain. You and the bartender wait for it to be deeply confirmed, then you can start ordering.
The above is probably vaguely familiar to LN users. It's the funding process of payment channels! The first transaction, the one that pays to a 2-of-2 multisig, is the funding transaction that backs the payment channel funds.
So now you start ordering in this way:
  1. For your first drink, you create a transaction spending the funding transaction output and sending the price of the drink to the bartender, with the rest returning to you.
  2. You sign the transaction and pass it to the bartender, who serves your first drink.
  3. For your succeeding drinks, you recreate the same transaction, adding the price of the new drink to the sum that goes to the bartender and reducing the money returned to you. You sign the transaction and give it to the bartender, who serves you your next drink.
  4. At the end:
    • If the bar closing time is reached, the bartender signs the latest transaction, completing the needed 2-of-2 signatures and broadcasting this to the Bitcoin network. Since the backoff transaction is the closing time + 1, it can't get used at closing time.
    • If you decide you want to leave early because your liver is crying, you just tell the bartender to go ahead and close the channel (which the bartender can do at any time by just signing and broadcasting the latest transaction: the bartender won't do that because he or she is hoping you'll stay and drink more).
    • If you ended up just hanging around the bar and never ordering, then at closing time + 1 you broadcast the backoff transaction and get your funds back in full.
Now, even if you pass 50 drinks to Jihan Wu, you can't give him the first transaction (the one which pays for only one drink) and ask him to mine it: it's spending a 2-of-2 and the copy you have only contains your own signature. You need the bartender's signature to make it valid, but he or she sure as hell isn't going to cooperate in something that would lose him or her money, so a signature from the bartender validating old state where he or she gets paid less isn't going to happen.
So, problem solved, right? Right? Okay, let's try it. So you get your funds, put them in a funding tx, get the backoff tx, confirm the funding tx...
Once the funding transaction confirms deeply, the bartender laughs uproariously. He or she summons the bouncers, who surround you menacingly.
"I'm refusing service to you," the bartender says.
"Fine," you say. "I was leaving anyway;" You smirk. "I'll get back my money with the backoff transaction, and posting about your poor service on reddit so you get negative karma, so there!"
"Not so fast," the bartender says. His or her voice chills your bones. It looks like your exploitation of the Satoshi nSequence payment channel is still fresh in his or her mind. "Look at the txid of the funding transaction that got confirmed."
"What about it?" you ask nonchalantly, as you flip open your desktop computer and open a reputable blockchain explorer.
What you see shocks you.
"What the --- the txid is different! You--- you changed my signature?? But how? I put the only copy of my private key in a sealed envelope in a cast-iron box inside a safe buried in the Gobi desert protected by a clan of nomads who have dedicated their lives and their childrens' lives to keeping my private key safe in perpetuity!"
"Didn't you know?" the bartender asks. "The components of the signature are just very large numbers. The sign of one of the signature components can be changed, from positive to negative, or negative to positive, and the signature will remain valid. Anyone can do that, even if they don't know the private key. But because Bitcoin includes the signatures in the transaction when it's generating the txid, this little change also changes the txid." He or she chuckles. "They say they'll fix it by separating the signatures from the transaction body. They're saying that these kinds of signature malleability won't affect transaction ids anymore after they do this, but I bet I can get my good friend Jihan Wu to delay this 'SepSig' plan for a good while yet. Friendly guy, this Jihan Wu, it turns out all I had to do was slip him 51 drinks and he was willing to mine a tx with the signature signs flipped." His or her grin widens. "I'm afraid your backoff transaction won't work anymore, since it spends a txid that is not existent and will never be confirmed. So here's the deal. You pay me 99% of the funds in the funding transaction, in exchange for me signing the transaction that spends with the txid that you see onchain. Refuse, and you lose 100% of the funds and every other HODLer, including me, benefits from the reduction in coin supply. Accept, and you get to keep 1%. I lose nothing if you refuse, so I won't care if you do, but consider the difference of getting zilch vs. getting 1% of your funds." His or her eyes glow. "GENUFLECT RIGHT NOW."
Lesson learned?

CLTV-protected Spilman Channels

Using CLTV for the backoff branch.
This variation is simply Spilman channels, but with the backoff transaction replaced with a backoff branch in the SCRIPT you pay to. It only became possible after OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY (CLTV) was enabled in 2015.
Now as we saw in the Spilman Channels discussion, transaction malleability means that any pre-signed offchain transaction can easily be invalidated by flipping the sign of the signature of the funding transaction while the funding transaction is not yet confirmed.
This can be avoided by simply putting any special requirements into an explicit branch of the Bitcoin SCRIPT. Now, the backoff branch is supposed to create a maximum lifetime for the payment channel, and prior to the introduction of OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY this could only be done by having a pre-signed nLockTime transaction.
With CLTV, however, we can now make the branches explicit in the SCRIPT that the funding transaction pays to.
Instead of paying to a 2-of-2 in order to set up the funding transaction, you pay to a SCRIPT which is basically "2-of-2, OR this singlesig after a specified lock time".
With this, there is no backoff transaction that is pre-signed and which refers to a specific txid. Instead, you can create the backoff transaction later, using whatever txid the funding transaction ends up being confirmed under. Since the funding transaction is immutable once confirmed, it is no longer possible to change the txid afterwards.

Todd Micropayment Networks

The old hub-spoke model (that isn't how LN today actually works).
One of the more direct predecessors of the Lightning Network was the hub-spoke model discussed by Peter Todd. In this model, instead of payers directly having channels to payees, payers and payees connect to a central hub server. This allows any payer to pay any payee, using the same channel for every payee on the hub. Similarly, this allows any payee to receive from any payer, using the same channel.
Remember from the above Spilman example? When you open a channel to the bartender, you have to wait around for the funding tx to confirm. This will take an hour at best. Now consider that you have to make channels for everyone you want to pay to. That's not very scalable.
So the Todd hub-spoke model has a central "clearing house" that transport money from payers to payees. The "Moonbeam" project takes this model. Of course, this reveals to the hub who the payer and payee are, and thus the hub can potentially censor transactions. Generally, though, it was considered that a hub would more efficiently censor by just not maintaining a channel with the payer or payee that it wants to censor (since the money it owned in the channel would just be locked uselessly if the hub won't process payments to/from the censored user).
In any case, the ability of the central hub to monitor payments means that it can surveill the payer and payee, and then sell this private transactional data to third parties. This loss of privacy would be intolerable today.
Peter Todd also proposed that there might be multiple hubs that could transport funds to each other on behalf of their users, providing somewhat better privacy.
Another point of note is that at the time such networks were proposed, only unidirectional (Spilman) channels were available. Thus, while one could be a payer, or payee, you would have to use separate channels for your income versus for your spending. Worse, if you wanted to transfer money from your income channel to your spending channel, you had to close both and reshuffle the money between them, both onchain activities.

Poon-Dryja Lightning Network

Bidirectional two-participant channels.
The Poon-Dryja channel mechanism has two important properties:
Both the original Satoshi and the two Spilman variants are unidirectional: there is a payer and a payee, and if the payee wants to do a refund, or wants to pay for a different service or product the payer is providing, then they can't use the same unidirectional channel.
The Poon-Dryjam mechanism allows channels, however, to be bidirectional instead: you are not a payer or a payee on the channel, you can receive or send at any time as long as both you and the channel counterparty are online.
Further, unlike either of the Spilman variants, there is no time limit for the lifetime of a channel. Instead, you can keep the channel open for as long as you want.
Both properties, together, form a very powerful scaling property that I believe most people have not appreciated. With unidirectional channels, as mentioned before, if you both earn and spend over the same network of payment channels, you would have separate channels for earning and spending. You would then need to perform onchain operations to "reverse" the directions of your channels periodically. Secondly, since Spilman channels have a fixed lifetime, even if you never used either channel, you would have to periodically "refresh" it by closing it and reopening.
With bidirectional, indefinite-lifetime channels, you may instead open some channels when you first begin managing your own money, then close them only after your lawyers have executed your last will and testament on how the money in your channels get divided up to your heirs: that's just two onchain transactions in your entire lifetime. That is the potentially very powerful scaling property that bidirectional, indefinite-lifetime channels allow.
I won't discuss the transaction structure needed for Poon-Dryja bidirectional channels --- it's complicated and you can easily get explanations with cute graphics elsewhere.
There is a weakness of Poon-Dryja that people tend to gloss over (because it was fixed very well by RustyReddit):
Another thing I want to emphasize is that while the Lightning Network paper and many of the earlier presentations developed from the old Peter Todd hub-and-spoke model, the modern Lightning Network takes the logical conclusion of removing a strict separation between "hubs" and "spokes". Any node on the Lightning Network can very well work as a hub for any other node. Thus, while you might operate as "mostly a payer", "mostly a forwarding node", "mostly a payee", you still end up being at least partially a forwarding node ("hub") on the network, at least part of the time. This greatly reduces the problems of privacy inherent in having only a few hub nodes: forwarding nodes cannot get significantly useful data from the payments passing through them, because the distance between the payer and the payee can be so large that it would be likely that the ultimate payer and the ultimate payee could be anyone on the Lightning Network.
Lessons learned?

Future

After LN, there's also the Decker-Wattenhofer Duplex Micropayment Channels (DMC). This post is long enough as-is, LOL. But for now, it uses a novel "decrementing nSequence channel", using the new relative-timelock semantics of nSequence (not the broken one originally by Satoshi). It actually uses multiple such "decrementing nSequence" constructs, terminating in a pair of Spilman channels, one in both directions (thus "duplex"). Maybe I'll discuss it some other time.
The realization that channel constructions could actually hold more channel constructions inside them (the way the Decker-Wattenhofer puts a pair of Spilman channels inside a series of "decrementing nSequence channels") lead to the further thought behind Burchert-Decker-Wattenhofer channel factories. Basically, you could host multiple two-participant channel constructs inside a larger multiparticipant "channel" construct (i.e. host multiple channels inside a factory).
Further, we have the Decker-Russell-Osuntokun or "eltoo" construction. I'd argue that this is "nSequence done right". I'll write more about this later, because this post is long enough.
Lessons learned?
submitted by almkglor to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

I'm Mark Karpelès, ex-CEO of bankrupt MtGox. Ask me anything.

Dear community,
Many of you know or remember me, especially recently since the MtGox bankruptcy has been allegedly linked with Bitcoin price drops in December 2017 to February 2018. Since taking over the most active Bitcoin exchange in 2011, I ran MtGox until filing for civil rehabilitation on February 28th 2014 (which became bankruptcy less than 2 months later) because a large amount of Bitcoins went missing. Since then, four years have passed, and MtGox is still in bankruptcy today. I’ve been arrested, released under bail after a little less than one year, and am now trying to assist MtGox getting into civil rehabilitation.
I did my best trying to grow the ecosystem by running the biggest exchange at the time. It had big problems but still managed to hang in there. For a while. A quite long while, even, while the rest of the ecosystem caught up. At the end of the day, the methods I chose to try to get MtGox out of its trouble ended up being insufficient, insufficiently executed, or plain wrong.
I know I didn't handle the last, stressful days of the outdrawn and painful Gox collapse very well. I can only be humble about that in hindsight. Once again, I’m sorry.
Japanese bankruptcy law has a particularly nasty outcome here, and I want to address this up front. As creditors claims were registered, those claims were registered in the valuation of Japanese Yen on the bankruptcy date. That's the only way Japanese bankruptcy law can work (most bankruptcy laws around the world operate this way for that matter). This means that the claims can be paid back in full, and there will still be over 160,000 bitcoin and bitcoin cash in assets in the Gox estate. The way bankruptcy law works is that if there are any assets remaining after the creditors have been paid in full, then those assets are distributed to shareholders as part of the liquidation.
That's the only way any bankruptcy law can reasonably work. And yet, in this case, it produces an egregiously distasteful outcome in that the shareholders of MtGox would walk away with the value of over 160,000 bitcoin as a result of what happened.
I don't want this. I don't want this billion dollars. From day one I never expected to receive anything from this bankruptcy. The fact that today this is a possibility is an aberration and I believe it is my responsibility to make sure it doesn’t happen. One of the ways to do this would be civil rehabilitation, and as it seems most creditors agree with this, I am doing my best to help make it happen. I do not want to become instantly rich. I do not ask for forgiveness. I just want to see this end as soon as possible with everyone receiving their share of what they had on MtGox so everyone, myself included, can get some closure.
I’m an engineer at heart. I want to build things. I like seeing what I build being useful, and people being happy using what I build. My drive, from day one, has been to push the limits of what is technically possible, and this is the main reason I liked and have been involved with Bitcoin in the first place. When I took over MtGox, I never imagined things would end this way and I am forever sorry for everything that’s taken place and all the effect it had on everyone involved.
Hopefully, I can make what I’ve learned in this experience useful to the community as a whole, so there can at least be something positive in the end.
Ask me anything you like.
EDIT: With this coming to all there have been an overwhelming number of messages, questions etc. I will continue responding for a little while but probably won't be able to respond to new questions (it is starting to be late here and I've been spending the last few hours typing). Thank you very much to everyone.
submitted by MagicalTux to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

MtGoxProtest: Who will get our 200,000 bitcoins?

MtGoxProtest: Who will get our 200,000 bitcoins? submitted by renim_nioc to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

$1B Bitcoins On The Move: Owner Transfers ~$100M to Bitfinex And Binance In 10 Days

$1B Bitcoins On The Move: Owner Transfers ~$100M to Bitfinex And Binance In 10 Days
This is the third post of a series of articles dedicated to investigate $1B worth of bitcoins (111,114 BTC/BCH/... BXX) that were dormant since 2014 and started moving actively. The BTC coins were originally located at this address (1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a).
The origin of the bitcoins is discussed here.
A deep-dive into the wallet activity was discussed here.
Today, I will focus on the transfer to major exchanges wallets that could indicate that the owner is selling his coins or exchanging it with alts or mixing it to cover his back.
I built a graph in order to deep dive into the transactions originated from the 111,114-BTC wallet and to follow it. This is the resulting graph were red indicates transactions <1 day, yellow <1 month, blue <1 year, green else.
https://preview.redd.it/nk3iov045vj11.png?width=1677&format=png&auto=webp&s=176d5b5bda930abf870dbea7edd1ba5b654158be

I found that at least 15,593 BTC originated from the 111,114-BTC wallet have been moved to Bitfinex and Binance wallets. This represents 14% of the original funds and more than $110M.

Bitfinex wallet

https://preview.redd.it/m8fryy8s5vj11.png?width=2038&format=png&auto=webp&s=117806763f7fc79909ee0358755e43c6de652749

11,114 BTC have been transferred to Bitfinex wallet 1Kr6QSydW9bFQG1mXiPNNu6WpJGmUa9i1g and the majority of these coins have been transferred in the last 7 days (August 24th - September 2nd).
Here is the list of the transactions:
https://preview.redd.it/8e9l0lqf0vj11.png?width=471&format=png&auto=webp&s=c63fa6ce9479efd4f27ce8f8cd456de19712fc9e

Binance wallet

https://preview.redd.it/i1v5lv3j9vj11.png?width=2025&format=png&auto=webp&s=bc6c893b684d2c97206565219ff4d5ce8eb721a2

4,421 BTC have been transferred to Binance wallet 1NDyJtNTjmwk5xPNhjgAMu4HDHigtobu1s and the majority of these coins have been transferred in the last 10 days (August 21st - September 2nd).
Here is the list of the transactions:
https://preview.redd.it/2cs6ufabavj11.png?width=453&format=png&auto=webp&s=5cdcb45cbe44f3f61251317036c6738aa0f3a9cd
Bitmex wallet(s)

I tracked Bitmex as well but "only" found 210 BTC transferred in with the following 6 major transactions:
https://preview.redd.it/2oondki1ovj11.png?width=432&format=png&auto=webp&s=9ae358b80e747b62d6940ef9022df2734ed001f0

Also, I have found 350 BTC transferred from Bitmex wallets though, maybe after being "washed out":
https://preview.redd.it/sx2g36jnovj11.png?width=546&format=png&auto=webp&s=26f0ac6c64e6aa9aedb7f76c90fb8ebea1beefcc

Update 1
If anyone finds if the owner of this address is an exchange : 3PtJRj5xKUKJ21TshP5u2G6dQMPNz2yUSc, I would be interested, thanks.

Update 2
Here is a full resolution version of the graph requested by u/rush717:
https://preview.redd.it/xwvn0l9yxxj11.png?width=2705&format=png&auto=webp&s=cc01b3bfc8aed64af4323a485e35ce459f498327


Update 3
MtGox vs SilkRoad origin and September 6th BTC price impact is now discussed here: https://www.reddit.com/btc/comments/9dvaj1b_bitcoins_on_the_move_mtgox_vs_silkroad_origin/

--
Surprisingly BTC price was pumping since those funds were starting to be transferred to Bitfinex and Binance wallets (see Binance transactions' list, August 11th)
How do you think this will impact the market?
Do you want me to continue this investigation? If yes let me know what you would want me to focus on.
submitted by sick_silk to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

I'm Mark Karpelès, ex-CEO of bankrupt MtGox. Ask me anything.

Dear community,
Many of you know or remember me, especially recently since the MtGox bankruptcy has been allegedly linked with Bitcoin price drops in December 2017 to February 2018. Since taking over the most active Bitcoin exchange in 2011, I ran MtGox until filing for civil rehabilitation on February 28th 2014 (which became bankruptcy less than 2 months later) because a large amount of Bitcoins went missing. Since then, four years have passed, and MtGox is still in bankruptcy today. I’ve been arrested, released under bail after a little less than one year, and am now trying to assist MtGox getting into civil rehabilitation.
I did my best trying to grow the ecosystem by running the biggest exchange at the time. It had big problems but still managed to hang in there. For a while. A quite long while, even, while the rest of the ecosystem caught up. At the end of the day, the methods I chose to try to get MtGox out of its trouble ended up being insufficient, insufficiently executed, or plain wrong.
I know I didn't handle the last, stressful days of the outdrawn and painful Gox collapse very well. I can only be humble about that in hindsight. Once again, I’m sorry.
Japanese bankruptcy law has a particularly nasty outcome here, and I want to address this up front. As creditors claims were registered, those claims were registered in the valuation of Japanese Yen on the bankruptcy date. That's the only way Japanese bankruptcy law can work (most bankruptcy laws around the world operate this way for that matter). This means that the claims can be paid back in full, and there will still be over 160,000 bitcoin and bitcoin cash in assets in the Gox estate. The way bankruptcy law works is that if there are any assets remaining after the creditors have been paid in full, then those assets are distributed to shareholders as part of the liquidation.
That's the only way any bankruptcy law can reasonably work. And yet, in this case, it produces an egregiously distasteful outcome in that the shareholders of MtGox would walk away with the value of over 160,000 bitcoin as a result of what happened.
I don't want this. I don't want this billion dollars. From day one I never expected to receive anything from this bankruptcy. The fact that today this is a possibility is an aberration and I believe it is my responsibility to make sure it doesn’t happen. One of the ways to do this would be civil rehabilitation, and as it seems most creditors agree with this, I am doing my best to help make it happen. I do not want to become instantly rich. I do not ask for forgiveness. I just want to see this end as soon as possible with everyone receiving their share of what they had on MtGox so everyone, myself included, can get some closure.
I’m an engineer at heart. I want to build things. I like seeing what I build being useful, and people being happy using what I build. My drive, from day one, has been to push the limits of what is technically possible, and this is the main reason I liked and have been involved with Bitcoin in the first place. When I took over MtGox, I never imagined things would end this way and I am forever sorry for everything that’s taken place and all the effect it had on everyone involved.
Hopefully, I can make what I’ve learned in this experience useful to the community as a whole, so there can at least be something positive in the end.
Ask me anything you like.
EDIT: With this coming to all there have been an overwhelming number of messages, questions etc. I will continue responding for a little while but probably won't be able to respond to new questions (it is starting to be late here and I've been spending the last few hours typing). Thank you very much to everyone.
submitted by MagicalTux to btc [link] [comments]

XYO coin is seeding - stock up

From 2009 to 2013 bitcoin did the same - pennies on the dollars for 5 years... I purchased 200 bitcoins for about $5.00 in 2010 as a curiosity and sold them in 2013 for about $20 a piece... I would of kept them if i knew the outcome would be equivalent to $2,000,000 today... I still have 1.2 bitcoins tied up in the mtgox bankruptcy since it was about $80 a coin, so I'm waiting for that to finalize.
Today XYO at .0005 is a steal. Litecoin was $00.00001 in 2013.. pretty worthless, so I didn't keep my password on my wallet and its lost... now they're $80... who knew..
If you buy $5 worth ~ 10,000xyo and the price comes up to 1 cent, you now have $100 - who knows what the future value will become, but people are still just getting into xyo so it is growing. so save up now and don't lose your passwords.
submitted by Spyderbytez to XYONetwork [link] [comments]

Investigating the $1B Bitcoins on the move from a SilkRoad related wallet

Investigating the $1B Bitcoins on the move from a SilkRoad related wallet
2 days ago, I reported that a SilkRoad related wallet containing about $1B worth of Bitcoins (111,114 $BTC and the same amount of $BCH and of other Bitcoin forks) was on the move after 4 years and 5 months of inactivity : https://www.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/9bfnff/near_1b_are_currently_on_the_move_from_a_silkroad/

Today, I will dig a little bit more into this wallet activity.

Below you will find a graph representation of the transactions sent over time from the original 111,114-BTC wallet to the most recent wallets which have received some of the coins. Each branch represent a sequence of transactions sent through several wallets.

Red nodes indicate the most recent transactions (< 1 month), blue nodes indicate quite recent ones (<1 year) and green nodes are the older ones ( > 1 year).

https://preview.redd.it/jjhfpb4udhj11.png?width=2233&format=png&auto=webp&s=7a369b73dfbe4601e05608f1aae36aff24a4d52e

  • Picture 2: original coins are currently transferred on Binance wallet, in fact it is a major end-point/aggregate of transactions originated from the 111,114-BTC wallet (1NDyJtNTjmwk5xPNhjgAMu4HDHigtobu1s).
https://preview.redd.it/7novcf2wdhj11.png?width=2222&format=png&auto=webp&s=d0c429674a70bf2baf32c4ecc9c4475a1d43ad7e

https://preview.redd.it/9ungmsexdhj11.png?width=1620&format=png&auto=webp&s=079fcf54605e88debe0cac297e492785b7cc73ed

  • Picture 4: funds are currently actively mixed, you can see a chain of red nodes with no other purpose than transferring n time the coins and splitting/mixing it a bit (3Ah15skNb8R1teRWs6h2Q2vRywkLJWUhhb).​
https://preview.redd.it/9lzr31n0ehj11.png?width=2227&format=png&auto=webp&s=ade9fcf046e86a595e47f8c196df3abcb28866d3

So it's now obvious that the wallet's owner :
  1. is very actively splitting his original 111,114 BTC this past month (a lot of transactions are very recent, see the amount of red nodes on the graph);
  2. some of this funds are currently being sold on Binance (picture 2 and 3);
  3. is very actively in the process of mixing, hiding and making difficult to track his coins (picture 4).
Is the owner going to sell all his coins? How do you think this can impact the market?

Update 1
Following the request of u/btc-reddit, below you will find the graph that marks with red dots the wallets which have been active in the past 24h. At least 88 BTC have been transferred in the last 24h to Binance wallet: 18afibtW5NLMqMwCZD6yt1qhkmEbrfa3QF , 1M2stLGnZGi9XhB2sqTwFfcSfxZhzYKHs6 , 15jFKpCBfHN599TopLPQYdv2aNCRZSUw2r , 1F1EWmLJtYUA1yvDGRBQ6Z6Zjp33ci9EZX , 1M2stLGnZGi9XhB2sqTwFfcSfxZhzYKHs6 ...
https://preview.redd.it/v4yql8ftvhj11.png?width=1630&format=png&auto=webp&s=73d3b35f04854dc66accc3485680404d3e76cbc3

​Furthermore, more than 2,980 BTC have been transferred to Binance wallet in August 2018, certainly to be sold or exchanged with other currencies, which represents 3% of the original wallet.
That's more than $20M worth of bitcoin at current price, it definitely can have impacted the overall price this month.
Most of it was sold after August 12th, which corresponds to the start of an increase in Bitcoin price interestingly:
https://preview.redd.it/lg3ckep3zjj11.png?width=456&format=png&auto=webp&s=e7ba5ec10628ca7b6872beae249ee047f1cee408

Update 2
​This address is also heavily involved in this graph: 1NyfNYAXZ76VNdvxUUVxdbhWFQGa7QDjTn. It saw 73,673 BTC go through it (only 350 BTC originated from the wallet we are studying here though), in a little bit more than a year.
https://preview.redd.it/sbkx1etviij11.png?width=2041&format=png&auto=webp&s=05d81143196dce1c33dd2d6ea6695900ddd8d0d9

Update 3
This address 3D83uPnvodCLpwedooiRrLjdQ9pcFVZF32 is part of the graph and is multiplexing a lot of coins, about 175 BTC in small chunks < 1 BTC.​

Update 4
This is a more refined and complete version of the graph (the yellow nodes indicate transactions activity < 1 month). I let you find where is Binance wallet located ;-)
Obvious, isn't it!
https://preview.redd.it/y9e8tdlodkj11.png?width=2277&format=png&auto=webp&s=386fc91353b6c67d9ce8d6970c6c4bc1b7416a1a

Update 5
$110M worth of Bitcoins ​transferred Bitfinex and Binance: https://www.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/9ceb5v/1b_bitcoins_on_the_move_owner_transfers_100m_to/

Update 6
$1B bitcoins on the move: MtGox vs SilkRoad origin and BTC crash discussed
MtGox vs SilkRoad origin and September 6th BTC price impact is now discussed here: https://www.reddit.com/btc/comments/9dvaj1b_bitcoins_on_the_move_mtgox_vs_silkroad_origin/
submitted by sick_silk to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

$1B bitcoins on the move: MtGox vs SilkRoad origin and BTC price impact discussed

$1B bitcoins on the move: MtGox vs SilkRoad origin and BTC price impact discussed
Preamble: it seems that my post was censored and removed on bitcoin... from now I will only publish my articles on btc and crosspost it. Freedom and freespeech matter to me.
--

This is the 4th post of a series of articles dedicated to investigate $1B worth of bitcoins (111,114 BTC/BCH/... BXX) that were dormant since 2014 and started moving actively. The BTC coins were originally located at this address (1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a).
  • The facts that part of this funds (>13%) have been transferred in the past month to Bitfinex, Binance and Bitmex exchanges is discussed here.
  • The origin of the bitcoins was originally discussed here.
  • A deep-dive into the wallet activity was discussed here.

Today I am writing a short update to discuss the origin of the funds and some events that could be related both to this wallet and yesterday's price crash.

Wallet's origin

This question has been discussed a lot by the crypto community in the past year.
Here is a summary of the most probable hypothesis for the 1933p wallet's origin:
  1. a SilkRoad user or DPRs wallet per this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=310600.0
  2. a MtGox cold wallet that has been seized or is still owned by MtGox: in fact the wallet funds moved in March 2014 right after MtGox filed for bankruptcy one month earlier in February 2014; these movements dates are really similar to the 200,000 lost coins "found" by Karpeles which moved March 7th, 2014 (1dda0f8827518ce4d1d824bf7600f75ec7e199774a090a947c58a65ab63552e3), just 2 days before the movements on the wallet we are talking about here.
  3. a whale wallet since the major part of the 111,111 coins are coming from a very old deposit of 37,421 coins processed on June 21st, 2011 making this an early adopter's wallet (70d46f768b73e50440e41977eb13ab25826137a8d34486958c7d55c5931c6081)

Wizsec, a prominent Bitcoin security expert, seems to be pretty sure that the wallet belongs to a MtGox hodler and early investor, who is not a DPR or a SilkRoad user, per his Twitter post: https://twitter.com/wizsecurity/status/1037030003068653569
Finally, Wizsec and I agree that this wallet is not CSW`'s wallet despite it is mentioned in several court documents. Wizsec spent a lot of time debunking CSW's ownership claims earlier this year: https://twitter.com/wizsecurity/status/968337084837781504

What do you think about this wallet origin?
`
BTC price crash

Also, I wanted to report some events that could be related to this 1933p wallet activity:

  • $100M USDT were transferred (reported by u/whalecheetah) while the 1933f wallet owner was in the process of transferring approximately the same amount to several exchanges.
(update) Here is a link provided by u/jesquit: https://www.reddit.com/btc/comments/9cj208/bitcoin_surge_expected_as_100m_tether_goes_to
  • 10,000 BTC buy order was filed last night on Bitmex with 8,030 BTC transferred from a Bitfinex user wallet while the 1933p wallet owner transferred approximately the same amount of BTC to Bitfinex since August, 24th.
(update) Here is the actual BTC transaction: https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/tx/f2465a1225531d33696380f06034499a52d707f85ee6ae1419885980011f6e25 ,
with its Bitfinex inputs:
1Kr6QSydW9bFQG1mXiPNNu6WpJGmUa9i1g (3,000)
1Kr6QSydW9bFQG1mXiPNNu6WpJGmUa9i1g (2,000)
1Kr6QSydW9bFQG1mXiPNNu6WpJGmUa9i1g (2,000)
1Kr6QSydW9bFQG1mXiPNNu6WpJGmUa9i1g (1,029.98)
and output to Bitmex:
3BMEXqGpG4FxBA1KWhRFufXfSTRgzfDBhJ (10,000).

Was this deal prepared or was the buyer a bitcoin angel?

--
In the light of September 6th price crash, do you think the $100M transferred to the exchanges caused it?

https://preview.redd.it/npazsakt1uk11.png?width=2277&format=png&auto=webp&s=1806829761fb30619b4796961b9616875f1ca602
submitted by sick_silk to btc [link] [comments]

r/Bitcoin recap - March 2018

Hi Bitcoiners!
I’m back with the fifteenth monthly Bitcoin news recap.
For those unfamiliar, each day I pick out the most popularelevant/interesting stories in Bitcoin and save them. At the end of the month I release them in one batch, to give you a quick (but not necessarily the best) overview of what happened in bitcoin over the past month.
And a lot has happened. It's easy to forget with so much focus on the price. Take a moment and scroll through the list below. You'll find an incredibly eventful month.
You can see recaps of the previous months on Bitcoinsnippets.com
A recap of Bitcoin in March 2018
submitted by SamWouters to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

An extensive guide for cashing out bitcoin and cryptocurrencies into private banks

Hey guys.
Merry Xmas !
I am coming back to you with a follow up post, as I have helped many people cash out this year and I have streamlined the process. After my original post, I received many requests to be more specific and provide more details. I thought that after the amazing rally we have been attending over the last few months, and the volatility of the last few days, it would be interesting to revisit more extensively.
The attitude of banks around crypto is changing slowly, but it is still a tough stance. For the first partial cash out I operated around a year ago for a client, it took me months to find a bank. They wouldn’t want to even consider the case and we had to knock at each and every door. Despite all my contacts it was very difficult back in the days. This has changed now, and banks have started to open their doors, but there is a process, a set of best practices and codes one has to follow.
I often get requests from crypto guys who are very privacy-oriented, and it takes me months to have them understand that I am bound by Swiss law on banking secrecy, and I am their ally in this onboarding process. It’s funny how I have to convince people that banks are legit, while on the other side, banks ask me to show that crypto millionaires are legit. I have a solid background in both banking and in crypto so I manage to make the bridge, but yeah sometimes it is tough to reconcile the two worlds. I am a crypto enthusiast myself and I can say that after years of work in the banking industry I have grown disillusioned towards banks as well, like many of you. Still an account in a Private bank is convenient and powerful. So let’s get started.
There are two different aspects to your onboarding in a Swiss Private bank, compliance-wise.
*The origin of your crypto wealth
*Your background (residence, citizenship and probity)
These two aspects must be documented in-depth.
How to document your crypto wealth. Each new crypto millionaire has a different story. I may detail a few fun stories later in this post, but at the end of the day, most of crypto rich I have met can be categorized within the following profiles: the miner, the early adopter, the trader, the corporate entity, the black market, the libertarian/OTC buyer. The real question is how you prove your wealth is legit.
1. Context around the original amount/investment Generally speaking, your first crypto purchase may not be documented. But the context around this acquisition can be. I have had many cases where the original amount was bought through Mtgox, and no proof of purchase could be provided, nor could be documented any Mtgox claim. That’s perfectly fine. At some point Mtgox amounted 70% of the bitcoin transactions globally, and people who bought there and managed to withdraw and keep hold of their bitcoins do not have any Mtgox claim. This is absolutely fine. However, if you can show me the record of a wire from your bank to Tisbane (Mtgox's parent company) it's a great way to start.
Otherwise, what I am trying to document here is the following: I need context. If you made your first purchase by saving from summer jobs, show me a payroll. Even if it was USD 2k. If you acquired your first bitcoins from mining, show me the bills of your mining equipment from 2012 or if it was through a pool mine, give me your slushpool account ref for instance. If you were given bitcoin against a service you charged, show me an invoice.
2. Tracking your wealth until today and making sense of it. What I have been doing over the last few months was basically educating compliance officers. Thanks God, the blockchain is a global digital ledger! I have been telling my auditors and compliance officers they have the best tool at their disposal to lead a proper investigation. Whether you like it or not, your wealth can be tracked, from address to address. You may have thought all along this was a bad feature, but I am telling you, if you want to cash out, in the context of Private Banking onboarding, tracking your wealth through the block explorer is a boon. We can see the inflows, outflows. We can see the age behind an address. An early adopter who bought 1000 BTC in 2010, and let his bitcoin behind one address and held thus far is legit, whether or not he has a proof of purchase to show. That’s just common sense. My job is to explain that to the banks in a language they understand.
Let’s have a look at a few examples and how to document the few profiles I mentioned earlier.
The trader. I love traders. These are easy cases. I have a ton of respect for them. Being a trader myself in investment banks for a decade earlier in my career has taught me that controlling one’s emotions and having the discipline to impose oneself some proper risk management system is really really hard. Further, being able to avoid the exchange bankruptcy and hacks throughout crypto history is outstanding. It shows real survival instinct, or just plain blissed ignorance. In any cases traders at exchange are easy cases to corroborate since their whole track record is potentially available. Some traders I have met have automated their trading and have shown me more than 500k trades done over the span of 4 years. Obviously in this kind of scenario I don’t show everything to the bank to avoid information overload, and prefer to do some snacking here and there. My strategy is to show the early trades, the most profitable ones, explain the trading strategy and (partially expose) the situation as of now with id pages of the exchanges and current balance. Many traders have become insensitive to the risk of parking their crypto at exchange as they want to be able to trade or to grasp an occasion any minute, so they generally do not secure a substantial portion on the blockchain which tends to make me very nervous.
The early adopter. Provided that he has not mixed his coin, the early adopter or “hodler” is not a difficult case either. Who cares how you bought your first 10k btc if you bought them below 3$ ? Even if you do not have a purchase proof, I would generally manage to find ways. We just have to corroborate the original 30’000 USD investment in this case. I mainly focus on three things here:
*proof of early adoption I have managed to educate some banks on a few evidences specifically related to crypto markets. For instance with me, an old bitcointalk account can serve as a proof of early adoption. Even an old reddit post from a few years ago where you say how much you despise this Ripple premined scam can prove to be a treasure readily available to show you were early.
*story telling Compliance officers like to know when, why and how. They are human being looking for simple answers to simple questions and they don’t want like to be played fool. Telling the truth, even without a proof can do wonders, and even though bluffing might still work because banks don’t fully understand bitcoin yet, it is a risky strategy that is less and less likely to pay off as they are getting more sophisticated by the day.
*micro transaction from an old address you control This is the killer feature. Send a $20 worth transaction from an old address to my company wallet and to one of my partner bank’s wallet and you are all set ! This is gold and considered a very solid piece of evidence. You can also do a microtransaction to your own wallet, but banks generally prefer transfer to their own wallet. Patience with them please. they are still learning.
*signature message Why do a micro transaction when you can sign a message and avoid potentially tainting your coins ?
*ICO millionaire Some clients made their wealth participating in ETH crowdsale or IOTA ICO. They were very easy to deal with obviously and the account opening was very smooth since we could evidence the GENESIS TxHash flow.
The miner Not so easy to proof the wealth is legit in that case. Most early miners never took screenshot of the blocks on bitcoin core, nor did they note down the block number of each block they mined. Until the the Slashdot article from August 2010 anyone could mine on his laptop, let his computer run overnight and wake up to a freshly minted block containing 50 bitcoins back in the days. Not many people were structured enough to store and secure these coins, avoid malwares while syncing the blockchain continuously, let alone document the mined blocks in the process. What was 50 BTC worth really for the early miners ? dust of dollars, games and magic cards… Even miners post 2010 are generally difficult to deal with in terms of compliance onboarding. Many pool mining are long dead. Deepbit is down for instance and the founders are MIA. So my strategy to proof mining activity is as follow:
*Focusing on IT background whenever possible. An IT background does help a lot to bring some substance to the fact you had the technical ability to operate a mining rig.
*Showing mining equipment receipts. If you mined on your own you must have bought the hardware to do so. For instance mining equipment receipts from butterfly lab from 2012-2013 could help document your case. Similarly, high electricity bill from your household on a consistent basis back in the day could help. I have already unlocked a tricky case in the past with such documents when the bank was doubtful.
*Wallet.dat files with block mining transactions from 2011 thereafter This obviously is a fantastic piece of evidence for both you and me if you have an old wallet and if you control an address that received original mined blocks, (even if the wallet is now empty). I will make sure compliance officers understand what it means, and as for the early adopter, you can prove your control over these wallet through a microtransaction. With these kind of addresses, I can show on the block explorer the mined block rewards hitting at regular time interval, and I can even spot when difficulty level increased or when halvening process happened.
*Poolmining account. Here again I have educated my partner bank to understand that a slush account opened in 2013 or an OnionTip presence was enough to corroborate mining activity. The block explorer then helps me to do the bridge with your current wallet.
*Describing your set up and putting it in context In the history of mining we had CPU, GPU, FPG and ASICs mining. I will describe your technical set up and explain why and how your set up was competitive at that time.
The corporate entity Remember 2012 when we were all convinced bitcoin would take over the world, and soon everyone would pay his coffee in bitcoin? How naïve we were to think transaction fees would remain low forever. I don’t blame bitcoin cash supporters; I once shared this dream as well. Remember when we thought global adoption was right around the corner and some brick and mortar would soon accept bitcoin transaction as a common mean of payment? Well, some shop actually did accept payment and held. I had a few cases as such of shops holders, who made it to the multi million mark holding and had invoices or receipts to proof the transactions. If you are organized enough to keep a record for these trades and are willing to cooperate for the documentation, you are making your life easy. The digital advertising business is also a big market for the bitcoin industry, and affiliates partner compensated in btc are common. It is good to show an invoice, it is better to show a contract. If you do not have a contract (which is common since all advertising deals are about ticking a check box on the website to accept terms and conditions), there are ways around that. If you are in that case, pm me.
The black market Sorry guys, I can’t do much for you officially. Not that I am judging you. I am a libertarian myself. It’s just already very difficult to onboard legit btc adopters, so the black market is a market I cannot afford to consider. My company is regulated so KYC and compliance are key for me if I want to stay in business. Behind each case I push forward I am risking the credibility and reputation I have built over the years. So I am sorry guys I am not risking it to make an extra buck. Your best hope is that crypto will eventually take over the world and you won’t need to cash out anyway. Or go find a Lithuanian bank that is light on compliance and cooperative.
The OTC buyer and the libertarian. Generally a very difficult case. If you bought your stack during your journey in Japan 5 years ago to a guy you never met again; or if you accumulated on https://localbitcoins.com/ and kept no record or lost your account, it is going to be difficult. Not impossible but difficult. We will try to build a case with everything else we have, and I may be able to onboard you. However I am risking a lot here so I need to be 100% confident you are legit, before I defend you. Come & see me in Geneva, and we will talk. I will run forensic services like elliptic, chainalysis, or scorechain on an extract of your wallet. If this scan does not raise too many red flags, then maybe we can work together ! If you mixed your coins all along your crypto history, and shredded your seeds because you were paranoid, or if you made your wealth mining professionally monero over the last 3 years but never opened an account at an exchange. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I am not a magician and don’t get me wrong, I love monero, it’s not the point.
Cashing out ICOs Private companies or foundations who have ran an ICO generally have a very hard time opening a bank account. The few banks that accept such projects would generally look at 4 criteria:
*Seriousness of the project Extensive study of the whitepaper to limit the reputation risk
*AML of the onboarding process ICOs 1.0 have no chance basically if a background check of the investors has not been conducted
*Structure of the moral entity List of signatories, certificate of incumbency, work contract, premises...
*Fiscal conformity Did the company informed the authorities and seek a fiscal ruling.
For the record, I am not into the tax avoidance business, so people come to me with a set up and I see if I can make it work within the legal framework imposed to me.
First, stop thinking Switzerland is a “offshore heaven” Swiss banks have made deals with many governments for the exchange of fiscal information. If you are a French citizen, resident in France and want to open an account in a Private Bank in Switzerland to cash out your bitcoins, you will get slaughtered (>60%). There are ways around that, and I could refer you to good tax specialists for fiscal optimization, but I cannot organize it myself. It would be illegal for me. Swiss private banks makes it easy for you to keep a good your relation with your retail bank and continue paying your bills without headaches. They are integrated to SEPA, provide ebanking and credit cards.
For information, these are the kind of set up some of my clients came up with. It’s all legal; obviously I do not onboard clients that are not tax compliant. Further disclaimer: I did not contribute myself to these set up. Do not ask me to organize it for you. I won’t.
EU tricks
Swiss lump sum taxation Foreign nationals resident in Switzerland can be taxed on a lump-sum basis if they are not gainfully employed in our country. Under the lump-sum tax regime, foreign nationals taking residence in Switzerland may choose to pay an expense-based tax instead of ordinary income and wealth tax. Attractive cantons for the lump sum taxation are Zug, Vaud, Valais, Grisons, Lucerne and Berne. To make it short, you will be paying somewhere between 200 and 400k a year and all expenses will be deductible.
Switzerland has adopted a very friendly attitude towards crypto currency in general. There is a whole crypto valley in Zug now. 30% of ICOs are operated in Switzerland. The reason is that Switzerland has thrived for centuries on banking secrecy, and today with FATCA and exchange of fiscal info with EU, banking secrecy is dead. Regulators in Switzerland have understood that digital ledger technologies were a way to roll over this competitive advantage for the generations to come. Switzerland does not tax capital gains on crypto profits. The Finma has a very pragmatic approach. They have issued guidance- updated guidelines here. They let the business get organized and operate their analysis on a case per case basis. Only after getting a deep understanding of the market will they issue a global fintech license in 2019. This approach is much more realistic than legislations which try to regulate everything beforehand.
Italy new tax exemption. It’s a brand new fiscal exemption. Go to Aoste, get residency and you could be taxed a 100k/year for 10years. Yes, really.
Portugal What’s crazy in Europe is the lack of fiscal harmonization. Even if no one in Brussels dares admit it, every other country is doing fiscal dumping. Portugal is such a country and has proved very friendly fiscally speaking. I personally have a hard time trusting Europe. I have witnessed what happened in Greece over the last few years. Some of our ultra high net worth clients got stuck with capital controls. I mean no way you got out of crypto to have your funds confiscated at the next financial crisis! Anyway. FYI
Malta Generally speaking, if you get a residence somewhere you have to live there for a certain period of time. Being stuck in Italy is no big deal with Schengen Agreement, but in Malta it is a different story. In Malta, the ordinary residence scheme is more attractive than the HNWI residence scheme. Being an individual, you can hold a residence permit under this scheme and pay zero income tax in Malta in a completely legal way.
Monaco Not suitable for French citizens, but for other Ultra High Net worth individual, Monaco is worth considering. You need an account at a local bank as a proof of fortune, and this account generally has to be seeded with at least EUR500k. You also need a proof of residence. I do mean UHNI because if you don’t cash out minimum 30m it’s not interesting. Everything is expensive in Monaco. Real Estate is EUR 50k per square meter. A breakfast at Monte Carlo Bay hotel is 70 EUR. Monaco is sunny but sometimes it feels like a golden jail. Do you really want that for your kids?
Dubaï
  1. Set up a company in Dubaï, get your resident card.
  2. Spend one day every 6 month there
  3. ???
  4. Be tax free
US tricks Some Private banks in Geneva do have the license to manage the assets of US persons and U.S citizens. However, do not think it is a way to avoid paying taxes in the US. Opening an account at an authorized Swiss Private banks is literally the same tax-wise as opening an account at Fidelity or at Bank of America in the US. The only difference is that you will avoid all the horror stories. Horror stories are all real by the way. In Switzerland, if you build a decent case and answer all the questions and corroborate your case in depth, you will manage to convince compliance officers beforehand. When the money eventually hits your account, it is actually available and not frozen.
The IRS and FATCA require to file FBAR if an offshore account is open. However FBAR is a reporting requirement and does not have taxes related to holding an account outside the US. The taxes would be the same if the account was in the US. However penalties for non compliance with FBAR are very large. The tax liability management is actually performed through the management of the assets ( for exemple by maximizing long term capital gains and minimizing short term gains).
The case for Porto Rico. Full disclaimer here. I am not encouraging this. Have not collaborated on such tax avoidance schemes. if you are interested I strongly encourage you to seek a tax advisor and get a legal opinion. I am not responsible for anything written below. I am not going to say much because I am so afraid of uncle Sam that I prefer to humbly pass the hot potato to pwc From here all it takes is a good advisor and some creativity to be tax free on your crypto wealth if you are a US person apparently. Please, please please don’t ask me more. And read the disclaimer again.
Trust tricks Generally speaking I do not accept fringe fiscal situation because it puts me in a difficult situation to the banks I work with, and it is already difficult enough to defend a legit crypto case. Trust might be a way to optimize your fiscal situation. Belize. Bahamas. Seychelles. Panama, You name it. At the end of the day, what matters for Swiss Banks are the beneficial owner and the settlor. Get a legal opinion, get it done, and when you eventually knock at a private bank’s door, don’t say it was for fiscal avoidance you stupid ! You will get the door smashed upon you. Be smarter. It will work. My advice is just to have it done by a great tax specialist lawyer, even if it costs you some money, as the entity itself needs to be structured in a professional way. Remember that with trust you are dispossessing yourself off your wealth. Not something to be taken lightly.
“Anonymous” cash out. Right. I think I am not going into this topic, neither expose the ways to get it done. Pm me for details. I already feel a bit uncomfortable with all the info I have provided. I am just going to mention many people fear that crypto exchange might become reporting entities soon, and rightly so. This might happen anyday. You have been warned. FYI, this only works for non-US and large cash out.
The difference between traders an investors. Danmark, Holland and Germany all make a huge difference if you are a passive investor or if you are a trader. ICO is considered investing for instance and is not taxed, while trading might be considered as income and charged aggressively. I would try my best to protect you and put a focus on your investor profile whenever possible, so you don't have to pay 52% tax if you do not have to :D
Full cash out or partial cash out? People who have been sitting on crypto for long have grown an emotional and irrational link with their coins. They come to me and say, look, I have 50m in crypto but I would like to cash out 500k only. So first let me tell you that as a wealth manager my advice to you is to take some off the table. Doing a partial cash out is absolutely fine. The market is bullish. We are witnessing a redistribution of wealth at a global scale. Bitcoin is the real #occupywallstreet, and every one will discuss crypto at Xmas eve which will make the market even more supportive beginning 2018, especially with all hedge funds entering the scene. If you want to stay exposed to bitcoin and altcoins, and believe these techs will change the world, it’s just natural you want to keep some coins. In the meantime, if you have lived off pizzas over the last years, and have the means to now buy yourself an nice house and have an account at a private bank, then f***ing do it mate ! Buy physical gold with this account, buy real estate, have some cash at hands. Even though US dollar is worthless to your eyes, it’s good and convenient to have some. Also remember your wife deserves it ! And if you have no wife yet and you are socially awkward like the rest of us, then maybe cashing out partially will help your situation ;)
What the Private Banks expect. Joke aside, it is important you understand something. If you come around in Zurich to open a bank account and partially cash out, just don’t expect Private Banks will make an exception for you if you are small. You can’t ask them to facilitate your cash out, buy a 1m apartment with the proceeds of the sale, and not leave anything on your current account. It won’t work. Sadly, under 5m you are considered small in private banking. The bank is ok to let you open an account, provided that your kyc and compliance file are validated, but they will also want you to become a client and leave some money there to invest. This might me despicable, but I am just explaining you their rules. If you want to cash out, you should sell enough to be comfortable and have some left. Also expect the account opening to last at least 3-4 week if everything goes well. You can't just open an account overnight.
The cash out logistics. Cashing out 1m USD a day in bitcoin or more is not so hard.
Let me just tell you this: Even if you get a Tier 4 account with Kraken and ask Alejandro there to raise your limit over $100k per day, Even if you have a bitfinex account and you are willing to expose your wealth there, Even if you have managed to pass all the crazy due diligence at Bitstamp,
The amount should be fractioned to avoid risking your full wealth on exchange and getting slaughtered on the price by trading big quantities. Cashing out involves significant risks at all time. There is a security risk of compromising your keys, a counterparty risk, a fat finger risk. Let it be done by professionals. It is worth every single penny.
Most importantly, there is a major difference between trading on an exchange and trading OTC. Even though it’s not publicly disclosed some exchange like Kraken do have OTC desks. Trading on an exchange for a large amount will weight on the prices. Bitcoin is a thin market. In my opinion over 30% of the coins are lost in translation forever. Selling $10m on an exchange in a day can weight on the prices more than you’d think. And if you trade on a exchange, everything is shown on record, and you might wipe out the prices because on exchanges like bitstamp or kraken ultimately your counterparties are retail investors and the market depth is not huge. It is a bit better on Bitfinex. It is way better to trade OTC. Accessing the institutional OTC market is not easy, and that is also the reason why you should ask a regulated financial intermediary if we are talking about huge amounts.
Last point, always chose EUR as opposed to USD. EU correspondent banks won’t generally block institutional amounts. However we had the cases of USD funds frozen or delayed by weeks.
Most well-known OTC desks are Cumberlandmining (ask for Lucas), Genesis (ask for Martin), Bitcoin Suisse AG (ask for Niklas), circletrade, B2C2, or Altcoinomy (ask for Olivier)
Very very large whales can also set up escrow accounts for massive block trades. This world, where blocks over 30k BTC are exchanged between 2 parties would deserve a reddit thread of its own. Crazyness all around.
Your options: DIY or going through a regulated financial intermediary.
Execution trading is a job in itself. You have to be patient, be careful not to wipe out the order book and place limit orders, monitor the market intraday for spikes or opportunities. At big levels, for a large cash out that may take weeks, these kind of details will save you hundred thousands of dollars. I understand crypto holders are suspicious and may prefer to do it by themselves, but there are regulated entities who now offer the services. Besides, being a crypto millionaire is not a guarantee you will get institutional daily withdrawal limits at exchange. You might, but it will take you another round of KYC with them, and surprisingly this round might be even more aggressive that the ones at Private banks since exchange have gone under intense scrutiny by regulators lately.
The fees for cashing out through a regulated financial intermediary to help you with your cash out should be around 1-2% flat on the nominal, not more. And for this price you should get the full package: execution/monitoring of the trades AND onboarding in a private bank. If you are asked more, you are being abused.
Of course, you also have the option to do it yourself. It is a way more tedious and risky process. Compliance with the exchange, compliance with the private bank, trading BTC/fiat, monitoring the transfers…You will save some money but it will take you some time and stress. Further, if you approach a private bank directly, it will trigger a series of red flag to the banks. As I said in my previous post, they call a direct approach a “walk-in”. They will be more suspicious than if you were introduced by someone and won’t hesitate to show you high fees and load your portfolio with in-house products that earn more money to the banks than to you. Remember also most banks still do not understand crypto so you will have a lot of explanations to provide and you will have to start form scratch with them!
The paradox of crypto millionaires Most of my clients who made their wealth through crypto all took massive amount of risks to end up where they are. However, most of them want their bank account to be managed with a low volatility fixed income capital preservation risk profile. This is a paradox I have a hard time to explain and I think it is mainly due to the fact that most are distrustful towards banks and financial markets in general. Many clients who have sold their crypto also have a cash-out blues in the first few months. This is a classic situation. The emotions involved in hodling for so long, the relief that everything has eventually gone well, the life-changing dynamics, the difficulties to find a new motivation in life…All these elements may trigger a post cash-out depression. It is another paradox of the crypto rich who has every card in his hand to be happy, but often feel a bit sad and lonely. Sometimes, even though it’s not my job, I had to do some psychological support. A lot of clients have also become my friends, because we have the same age and went through the same “ordeal”. First world problem I know… Remember, cashing out is not the end. It’s actually the beginning. Don’t look back, don’t regret. Cash out partially, because it does not make sense to cash out in full, regret it and want back in. relax.
The race to cash out crypto billionaire and the concept of late exiter. The Winklevoss brothers are obviously the first of a series. There will be crypto billionaires. Many of them. At a certain level you can have a whole family office working for you to manage your assets and take care of your needs . However, let me tell you it’s is not because you made it so big that you should think you are a genius and know everything better than anyone. You should hire professionals to help you. Managing assets require some education around the investment vehicles and risk management strategies. Sorry guys but with all the respect I have for wallstreebet, AMD and YOLO stock picking, some discipline is necessary. The investors who have made money through crypto are generally early adopters. However I have started to see another profile popping up. They are not early adopters. They are late exiters. It is another way but just as efficient. Last week I met the first crypto millionaire I know who first bough bitcoin over 1000$. 55k invested at the beginning of this year. Late adopter & late exiter is a route that can lead to the million.
Last remarks. I know banks, bankers, and FIAT currencies are so last century. I know some of you despise them and would like to have them burn to the ground. With compliance officers taking over the business, I would like to start the fire myself sometimes. I hope this extensive guide has helped some of you. I am around if you need more details. I love my job despite all my frustration towards the banking industry because it makes me meet interesting people on a daily basis. I am a crypto enthusiast myself, and I do think this tech is here to stay and will change the world. Banks will have to adapt big time. Things have started to change already; they understand the threat is real. I can feel the generational gap in Geneva, with all these old bankers who don’t get what’s going on. They glaze at the bitcoin chart on CNBC in disbelief and they start to get it. This bitcoin thing is not a joke. Deep inside, as an early adopter who also intends to be a late exiter, as a libertarian myself, it makes me smile with satisfaction.
Cheers. @swisspb on telegram
submitted by Swissprivatebanker to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Why Bitcoin is NOT a scam / lottery / bubble / Tulip mania / whatever

So, another thread has hit /all and brought another influx of people new to Bitcoin. I usually don't pay much attention to all negative comments, but since I have some extra time today and nothing better to do... I wanted to address the main thing that often pops up in these threads. Namely: is Bitcoin a scam?
First of all, if you asked me this question in few years back (2015 when price crashed back to $200)... I would've said: maybe. At that point jury was still out - I often like to quote Satoshi's genius observation:

In twenty years, Bitcoin will either be worth quite a lot or nothing

With marketcap below $4B Bitcoin was still an easy target. We all remember MtGox scandal, government dumping Bitcoin seized from Silk Road for $48m (boy... did they dropped the ball with that one ;), discussions in Senate etc. etc. Meaning - at that point - it was still possible for rogue actor to pump and dump and break the whole system beyond repair.
But, it is end of 2017 now... and Bitcoin is worth over $7000 (boy, will it be fun when it's over 9000 ;). All this results in Bitcoin ecosystem being way more powerful now than few years back. Not only there is daily trading volume of over $3 BILLION going through Bitcoin... There are now Bitcoin companies that are worth over $1B. Hell, there are people who are Bitcoin billionaires. Which brings us to the main point:

Bitcoin is genuine technological revolution, accompanied by tangible merits. In a nutshell, Bitcoin is a scam in 2010s as much as Internet was a scam in 1990s.

1 Bitcoin is valuable because you can do "technologically new" things with it. Never before in the history of humanity we had TRULY DECENTRALIZED "asset" that had properties traditionally associated with currencies (previously always backed by someone / government) or commodities (like gold).
I hope this overview gave you good insight into why it's pretty much impossible for Bitcoin to be scam at this point. Like, I understand that recent HUGE price jump can influence people to see Bitcoin as Tulip mania. But Tulip mania was a scam because nothing substantial changed with tulips over night. People just started paying more and more for them. Plus, you could always produce more Tulips.
With Bitcoin you have genuine technological revolution behind. If you own Bitcoin you can do stuff you never could do before in various parts of the world. It's like banking infrastructure on steroids really. Plus, unlike Tulips, Bitcoin supply is limited. Hell, even gold - you can always mine more of it. Bitcoin is fixed at 21 million, for all eternity.
Any question - fell free to hit me up. Always glad to help newcomers to Bitcoin!
EDIT: One of the responses says - OK, we can agree Bitcoin is obviously not a scam. But, is it a bubble? Consider that Bitcoin has been a bubble for last 8 years. It was bubble when it was $2. It was bubble when it was $30. I thought it was bubble when it broke $2000. Hell, to me stock market is in the bubble. I like to compare Bitcoin to Internet... lots of people thought "Internet is a bubble"... yet 20 years later, here it is... completely changing humanity. In that sense I think Internet is best comparison to Bitcoin... time will tell whether or not Bitcoin is right now in the bubble... but I strongly believe that in 20 years Bitcoin will be above today's levels.
Now, if you share my long term prospects - then "Bitcoin bubble" will never be too much of an issue for you. Like - I don't buy in batches... I dollar cost average my BTC investment (you can look through my history for more info). See also Max_Thunder nice observation of using Bitcoin as vehicle for protection against inflation...
EDIT: I've incorrectly presented amount of money pumped into Bitcoin... read this for explanation.
EDIT: I also want to emphasize one thing:

DO NOT go ALL IN hoping that Bitcoin will hit whatever mark. Especially DO NOT BORROW MONEY and GO ALL IN unless you are ready to forget about whatever money you've invested for next 20 years.

95% of people I know that have been trading Bitcoin have LOST most of their money. I know bunch of people who bought at $20 and then sold at $2. Then there is a group that bought at $800 and sold at $200. There are also those on other side of equation... there was short worth tens of millions of $$$ earlier this year when BTC was breaking $1100. Crazy thing - Bitcoin price did drop few days later... but that was AFTER short was wiped out and whoever did it lost TENS OF MILLIONS of $$$.
Profiting is not only about being right about eventual price... it's also about knowing when it'll happen.
Final EDIT: Blow away by all the feedback. That's why I like to post here - I get interact with people and in the process learn something new. I'll be monitoring my Inbox so if you have more questions just drop them here. And if you like my writing, visit my motivational / various blog that I update occasionally.
submitted by howtoaddict to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Invest in Bitcoin and cryptocurrency: high risk investment, big potential.

Invest in Bitcoin and cryptocurrency: high risk investment, big potential.

https://preview.redd.it/2kk6nqhntdn31.jpg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b067b4f9660b2d05379f2808993936b1dd27b3e
After the bursting of the speculative bubble of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, many investors moved away from this currency. Nevertheless, it is always possible to earn money if you have a taste for risk. The point is to understand that it is possible to grow your investments even when the value drops, and not invest what you can not afford to lose.Summary.Nota Bene: the cryptocurrency trading is to be reserved for those who want to spend a lot of time, to learn, to learn and especially able to keep the head on the shoulders. A matter of experts.On eKonomia, we know that many of our readers, who have money problems, would be tempted to get into the world of trading, and why not in bitcoin and other cryptocurrency. This is most of the time a gross mistake, which we will explain.We believe very strongly in cryptocurrencies, and hope that they will someday replace our fiduciary currencies (euros, dollars), but for now, it is clear that attempts at scams and speculation reign supreme.This article is a highly speculative approach to cryptocurrency trading, here you are!The runaway for cryptosThe entire economic sphere, including investors in traditional sectors, has been interested in cryptocurrencies when they have demonstrated their unparalleled potential for returns. By taking the train at the right time, some have indeed multiplied their investment by 10 or more, all in less than a year. This is where the banks, the states and the media began to take an interest in this sector, which is as little known as it is lucrative. Regulations and smear campaigns were then put in place to dissuade investors from placing their money elsewhere than in the traditional sectors of the economy.The rapid fall of Bitcoin, following the bursting of the bubble, helped to support the demonstration, thus dissuading the neophytes to look further into the issue. In fact, it is not so simple because it is quite possible to take advantage of a bear market, as well as a bull market. As you can see, some have multiplied by 10 in one direction, then in the other. However, where gains are maximal and fast, so are the losses.To convince myself of the volatility of cryptocurrencies, I invite you to regularly check CoinMarketCap. I go there every day, and seeing a motto take 10 or 20% in a day is something banal, just like losing 10 or 20%!A Japanese candlestick, a graphic used in technical analysis. If its gibberish for you, then you measure the length of training you have to do before you start trading, let alone the cryptos!What about todays potential of cryptocurrency in terms of placement?There is no ready-made answer to the meaning of the evolution of the latter, but the possibilities of taking advantage of it remain intact. To understand how these investments work, we need on the one hand a global vision of the cryptocurrencies themselves, and on the other hand an understanding of the risk which remains the counterpart of the potential of gains.The risks associated with investing in cryptocurrencies.One of the main risks of investing in a cryptocurrency is its outright disappearance. Many small cryptocurrencies, alt coins (alternative to Bitcoin) have indeed a limited life. They do not find takers on the market and their disaffection leads either to their disappearance or to the stagnation of their prices. Regarding major currencies, starting with Bitcoin, their disappearance seems more than unlikely.Trusted third parties, ie platforms that buy, sell or trade in digital currency markets are also a crux of the problem. The case of MTGox, whose bankruptcy has resulted in the disappearance of thousands of accounts and therefore the placement of all its users, is one of the most glaring examples. Whoever says trusted third party also says security, and security remains a major problem in the cryptocurrency sector.One way to minimize the risk is to store your own cryptocurrency on a wallet, a virtual wallet protected by a complex password. However, any security has its flaws, and cybercriminals redouble their ingenuity to achieve their goals. Thus, scams are multiplying on social networks for example. Pseudo specialists offer juicy placements or advice, their only goal remaining to steal people naive enough to trust them.The opinion of specialists in finance.The classic actors of finance will tell you (practically) all: investing in cryptocurrencies is a bad idea. For example, the banker will offer much safer investments with attractive earning potential. It is sometimes these same specialists who were enthusiastic before the bursting of the internet bubble. The use of a stock portfolio gives them money, so it is quite normal that they try to sell their products.It is also obvious that these people discover the cryptocurrency and that as long as they will not have a product to offer on which they can take a margin, they will advise against this sector of investment. In addition, one can also think that if their expertise on the sector was so brilliant, they would certainly not work anymore as financial advisers.What solutions to invest in cryptocurrency by minimizing risks?On the other side of the Atlantic, where we are more reactive on the opportunities, the banks have already set up futures linked to the Bitcoin course. Here, the product is safe from the risk of hacking, theft and is completely regulated. Because this is the problem for the institutional actors of finance, cryptocurrencies are deregulated and non-centralized: no central bank decides the market, it self-regulates itself, according to the very principle of the hand invisible, so dear to capitalism.If the share of technical protection is ensured, it is amusing to note that this is done through futures, product that does not exclude the intrinsic risk part of trading. Trading Futures requires the opening of a dedicated account to intervene on the US market. The gains realized will be taxed as capital gains.CFD trading on Bitcoin.CFD brokers did not wait to invest in the cryptos market. These professionals know that there are good investments to make, despite the risks. For a common person, it is tempting to get into it too, but we must not forget that it is necessary, before throwing himself into the arena, to have at least fairly advanced skills in trading.CFDs or Contracts For Difference thus make it possible to invest in an asset (currency pair, index, share, commodity ...) through a contract defined upwards or downwards. In fact, the investor does not own the asset, just the contract. When he resells his contract, it is the difference between the purchase price and the selling price which constitutes the gain or loss.This type of financial product has several advantages:The trader can use a leverage effect. A lever x10 on a CFD at 100 € is worth 1000 € for an investment that remains 100 € The brokers are regulated by European organizations.Finally, before becoming an apprentice trader, I recommend a video of the excellent Thami Kabbaj. He explains the reasons that lead us to lose money.Do not invest money in trading until the tools are fully mastered! All the interest of using a trading simulation platform is there, there is no easy money, there has never been, and even less on the stock market.For further.The opinion of eKonomia.Cryptocurrency trading, yes, but only after a very good training.Attention: we remind our readers that trading should be reserved for very well-trained people, who know exactly what they are doing. Too many people shout at the scam because of significant money losses, when they simply did not master the tools of trading. The advantage of demonstration accounts is there, it allows everyone to learn, take the time to embark on these risky investments, but with great potential.Again, never invest what you can not afford to lose!I quote Vestle.fr:86% of retail investors accounts lose money by trading on CFDs with Vestle. You should evaluate if you can afford to take the risk of losing your money.So there is no easy money. The very sharp rise of Bitcoin in 2018 attracted a lot of people who were not prepared for the world of finance, let alone cryptocurrency, by definition very volatile. The fall of the cryptocurrency has confirmed, those who knew what was happening have won on all fronts: by betting on the rise at the right time, then down. We understand that the nerve of war is above all information, and to be aware of what is happening on the markets.Before venturing into trading, it is better to train and spend a lot of time thanks to a platform for simulations. Keeping in mind that while its easy to keep a cool head when there is no risk, investing your savings for real can make very bad decisions. not on the rational.Leverage allows considerable gains, but also considerable losses, hence the importance of training, if only to learn how to implement stop loss ...What did you think of this article?Compare the best credit offers for free.All our a>Read also on eKonomia.Investing with Bondora, inter-home loan In a world where bank interest rates are at a standstill, lending between individuals has a bright future. The Estonian investment platform Bondora thus offers high returns, thanks to credits available to all.Physical gold: a viable investment as well as a reliable investment In a crisis, buying gold in bullion, bars or coins is a reflex. Gold gives absolute security to the one who possesses it, sheltered from the vagaries of the world of finance, war or inflation. Profitability is not the main objective, even if sometimes good capital gains can be made. To talk to us about it, we called on Godot & Fils experts.Investing in coins: numismatics, safe haven? To save money, buying old coins is an alternative to banks. In the face of crises, it is better to invest in gold coins rather than libret A. To talk about it, we called upon the experts of Godot & Fils, long-standing specialists in numismatics and precious metals.Lending and borrowing in bitcoin: P2P credit The use of bitcoin cryptocurrency makes it possible to get rid of banks. Bitcoin credit is becoming more popular, thus avoiding bank charges. However, the high speculation that this virtual currency raises does not make it possible to establish a necessary climate of confidence on very long-term loans.eKonomia - credit comparator - advocates the financial extension, advising and explaining all you need to know about money, savings or credit, so that everyone can make the right decisions when it comes to budget and savings.A credit commits you and must be repaid. Check your repayment capacity before you commit. The responsibility of the eKonomia authors can not be accepted in the event of a bad financial decision resulting from the information published online.The eKonomia credit comparator is offered by AssurAgency. N ° ORIAS: 14001578.© In Aciem Unipessoal Lda 2019, all rights reserved Rua de Tânger, No. 1226, 3eq 4150-721 PORTO, PORTUGAL. +33.6 51 78 37 93 (FR)
submitted by hussainarif to u/hussainarif [link] [comments]

Front page of /r/bitcoin right now.

Keep calm, transaction malleability is not double spending
Mt. Gox Blames Bitcoin - Core Developer Greg Maxwell Responds
The Bitcoin Foundation, Coinbase, Bitstamp and Blockchain.info need to issue a statement debunking Gox's "bitcoin bug" argument
New Mt Gox Press Release - Feb 10 - they still aren't allowing BTC withdrawls
What the f$#% is the BTC Foundation doing? Kick Mark Kerpopples off the board.
Wow, fuck Mt Gox [rant]
CoinDesk Removes Mt. Gox from Bitcoin Price Index
MtGox removed from cryptocoincharts.info
I'm fed up with Gox's incompetence and purposely damaging language to the Bitcoin community: I'm saying it here, I'm willing to invest $50,000 in a legit U.S. in exchange for 5% of the business. Somebody get ahold of me!
MT Gox want to change the protocol due to their own ineptitude, typical.
submitted by Slutlord-Fascist to circlebroke2 [link] [comments]

Some words for my friends

Hello friends,
MtGox is gone. So let's prepare ourselves.
On Tuesday, and for the rest of the week, all hell will break lose in the media. It will be blamed on MtGox, it will be blamed on Bitcoin, it will be blamed on the "bug," and it will, more than anything, be blamed on the "lack of regulation." Pundits and "experts" of all types will weigh in on the calamity. It will be world news in a matter of hours.
Get ready, because it will be an ugly week.
For all of you who lost money, my heart goes out to you. Some people lost a little, some lost a fortune. It will make people sick, and depressed, and full of grief. Personally, I had over 550 BTC in Gox. I will never get any of that back. If misery loves company, then we'll be enjoying a grand feast today.
I should have known better, of course. I take responsibility for leaving those funds with an entity that had proven incompetence repeatedly. I chose to ignore even my own warnings, for nothing more than the sake of convenience.
Gox is still at fault, to be sure, but I have learned the lesson. I hope it is not such an expensive lesson for others. And for all you observers, please take a moment to consider it as well.
Be mindful, however, that the wrong lessons are not learned, for that would be the true tragedy, indeed.
Let me suggest that the lesson is not that Bitcoin is broken. Bitcoin is fine.
Similarly, the lesson is not that security is impossible. Those who know what they are doing, can achieve it and help others to do so.
The lesson is not that nobody can be trusted. There are countless good men and women in this community who are worthy of trust, and some of the very best people I've ever met.
And finally, the lesson is not that we ought to seek out "regulation" to save us from the evils and incompetence of man. For the regulators are men too, and wield the very same evil and incompetence, only enshrined in an authority from which it can wreck amplified and far more insidious destruction. Let us not retreat from our rising platform only to cower back underneath the deranged machinations of Leviathan.
The proper lesson, if I may suggest, is this: We are building a new financial order, and those of us building it, investing in it, and growing it, will pay the price of bringing it to the world. This is the harsh truth. We are building the channels, the bridges, and the towers of tomorrow's finance, and we put ourselves at risk in doing so.
We are at risk from accidents. We are at risk from fraud, from corruption, and from evil. We are at risk from journalists seeking headlines and from politicians seeking power and glory. We are at risk from the very market we are trying to build - a market which cares not about our portfolio, our ambitions, or our delicate sympathies.
For all these risks, devastation will befall us repeatedly. Some of us will be discouraged. Some will be ridiculed and insulted. Some will be tricked, or swindled. Some of us will be crushed or caged. We will be set upon by all manner of antagonists, repeatedly, for a long time.
So why do we do it? Why do we build these towers that fall down upon us? Why do we toil and strain and risk our precious time, which is the only real wealth we possess?
Because the world needs what we're building. It needs it desperately. If that matters to you, as it does to me, then hold to that thought. You will see through the smoke, and your wounds will heal.
So shake it off, brothers, for this won't be the last calamity endured before the win.
Tonight, my heart is with you all.
Tomorrow, my head is down. My eyes are open. And I am building.
Toward peace and freedom,
-Erik Voorhees
submitted by evoorhees to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Remember when Bitcoin lost 90% of its value, $33 ---> $3 in 2011

Remember when Bitcoin lost 90% of its value, $33 - $3 in 2011 submitted by Anenome5 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Does anyone else miss the good old days of Gavin & Andreas?

Today we have $10 bitcoin fees. 200k backlog of transactions. Paying a $1 fee is now considered "spam". I remember when bitcoin was a sunny outlook and the sky was the limit.
Now I see the failure to scale as much of a problem as the MtGox collapse. It may delay mass adoption by some number of years.
The price is going up, which is great, but I see Bitcoin's stalemate on the technology side of the house as the main barrier at this point.
Developers and Miners both want bitcoin to succeed. I remember how BTCGuild "fixed" the last fork in 2013. Back then Devs and Pools knew how to work together.
Why do they have to stay stuck in this asinine stalemate? Bitcoin's governance model was to have miners create blocks. Majority rules, 51% is king. The mechanism is already set. All that should be required is merchants/payment processors/etc commit to actually supporting the real Bitcoin, AKA the "longest" chain.
Bitcoin today needs to grow some balls and stick with the model as designed. Sure give me Segwit, but give us bigger damn blocks too! Anyone with half brain knows 1mb, even 2mb is too small.
This really is common sense stuff. And unfortunately common sense seems to be a rarity these days. Bitcoin's second chance IPO is here. Lets not fuck it up again (throws karpeles the finger)!
Sincerely,
A bitcoin believer and miner since 2011
submitted by jwBTC to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Hodl Hodl launches new project called "Predictions" on TESTNET

From the related blog post (https://medium.com/@hodlhodl/predictions-by-hodl-hodl-available-on-testnet-83f8ff97a98d):
Today we’re officially announcing our project “Predictions by Hodl Hodl” which is now available on TESTNET — predictions.cc.
In this blog post we want to give instructions, explain how everything works, and give you some use-cases for our new project.
Let’s get everything in order.
Overview
Predictions is a project by Hodl Hodl that is a marketplace where you can go and create a contract with someone else, where the conditions of the payout depend on the outcome of a certain event. The payouts are only made in Bitcoin.
Let’s say you want to predict that the price of Bitcoin will be above $15,000 by July 2019. The other party may disagree with you. The condition of the contract states that each one of you locks 1 Bitcoin into escrow and whoever turns out to be correct in the prediction of the price of Bitcoin gets 2 bitcoins in July.
We provide you with a solution to make this possible:
An offer desk
Simply put, it’s a place where you can find other users’ predictions and create your own;
Escrow solution
For each contract we generate two multisig addresses, where the funds are being stored safely during the prediction contract, with two out of three keys needed for release.
Resolving disputes
In case of a disagreement between the two parties on the prediction contract’s outcome, Hodl Hodl intervenes and resolves the dispute.
Use cases
The use case described above is the simplest one. Here are just a few more examples from an infinite number of options:
Stock prices
You can buy public company shares, and try predicting the price of that stock. Choose any public company, e.g. Google, and predict the price of its shares by, for example, the end of 2019.
Oil price
If you’re long on renewable energy, you would probably expect the price of oil to fall at some point — predict when exactly.
Payouts to creditors of MtGox
If you’re a MtGox creditor (a Bitcoin exchange that was hacked and went bankrupt back in 2014) and awaiting the payout, you might be interested in creating a contract that says “creditors of MtGox will not be paid anything in 2019” even though your expectation is that they will be. Thus, if you get paid by MtGox, you receive bitcoins from them, but lose the ones you locked in your contract. If you don’t get paid by MtGox, you’d get some of the bitcoins that will be sort of a compensation for a longer wait period.
The outcome of the Champions League final
You can make the final more exciting by creating a prediction of who gets to be the Champions League winner in 2019.
Peter McCormack VS Craig Wright
If you follow these kinds of events and want to support either side, make a prediction of who wins the trial, or whether it goes to trial at all.
Offer creation
To make a prediction offer, simply press the “Add offer” button on the front page of the website, or on “My offers” page.
When creating offers, you have to describe the event, the outcome you predict, how many bitcoins you would like to lock in escrow and how much your counterparty should lock in escrow.
We made the process as simple as possible, and creating offers won’t take much of your time.
Please note:
Every offer is pre-moderated by Hodl Hodl admins Your offer should not describe anything illegal You should be as specific and unambiguous as possible when describing the event outcome
Contract workflow
When you create an offer and someone accepts it, or you accept an existing offer, a contract is created.
Let’s analyze this step by step.
1) Contract is created;
Right after the contract is created, Hodl Hodl generates two unique escrow addresses.
It’s worth mentioning:
We support native Bech32 SegWit addresses. This means you can send and receive the funds from escrow to Bech32 addresses when the contract is completed
We generate P2SH-P2WSH SegWit multisig escrow addresses. For every contract we generate multisig addresses in SegWit format.
2) Both parties make deposits;
Both offeror and acceptor make deposits to the escrow addresses we present them with, sending funds from their own Bitcoin wallets.
3) Waiting for the event to take place;
When both counterparties have sent bitcoins to the escrow addresses and transactions are confirmed, we inform users that everything is alright, and we’re waiting for the event to take place.
4) Acknowledging the contract outcome;
Once the event has happened, we ask both parties to decide who was right and who was wrong regarding the prediction made.
Both parties are given 3 days to acknowledge this. If there’s a disagreement between them or one party doesn’t make the decision as to the outcome of the contract within 3 days, a dispute is started.
It’s also possible for both parties to declare a draw — in this case, both parties are able to refund the funds they’ve previously locked in escrow.
5) Prediction contract is now complete!
If the parties agreed on the contract outcome, the party that predicted the outcome correctly can release all locked funds from the escrow to their own Bitcoin wallet: both the funds the party itself locked and the funds that the counterparty locked.
That’s it, the workflow is as simple as that.
Dispute case
It’s worth asking, what exactly happens in case of a disagreement between the two parties in a prediction contract?
Say we have a dispute in which case Hodl Hodl intervenes and resolves the dispute by:
Administrator has the following options: either resolve the dispute in favor of one of the counterparties, or to recognize a draw.
We do not expect this scenario to be difficult or waste our resources, because every offer is pre-moderated and we apply strict rules for offer creation.
That’s it
A new milestone begins in our company’s development, we would appreciate support from your side: please share this news, send us suggestions and bugreports about this project, and be sure you’ll see more exciting things to come very soon.
Predictions on MAINNET
The mainnet version is going live in June 2019, follow our news to stay informed!
submitted by artur97 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Google may be the first bitcoin bank

The Google Wallet service lets users pay digital cash in exchange for goods at the register. I don't think it's a coincidence that this happened on the eve of bitcoin's coming-out party. It would be trivial for them to accept bitcoin in exchange for USD in a user's wallet, so here is what I think might happen:
Google users are given bitcoin addresses into which deposits may be made. The daily exchange rate is used to convert to USD at the time of purchase. Spending limits are set by the users before the address is given out, in case someone steals your password and tries to spend all your money.
Why would people give up their anonymity in exchange for this service?
Google's political clout could sway the media away from demonizing the fledgling currency. It's good PR for them and for Bitcoin. Plus, they have an army of lawyers on their side. Does anyone else see this coming, or is it just my over-eager brain malfunctioning?
tl;dr Google offers bitcoin for wallet users. Lay persons trade anonymity for convenience and security. Hilarity ensues.
submitted by asherp to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Why the "Trustee" sold YOUR BTC/BCH now in quiet and on open Markets..?

Dear Creditors! Finita la Commedia with the trustee's claims to act in the best interests of Mt.Gox creditors. RIP.
We need to URGENTLY act collectively on this revelation in a manner that will make SURE creditors interests are upheld in this bankruptcy process and justice is made. As the matters stand now we are drifting in the wrong direction.

Current State

1. Mt.Gox trustee sells 35,841 Bitcoin and 34,008 Bitcoin Cash for a total of 42,988,044,343 JPY (~405,167,934 USD).
This is because the total amount of claims that have been accepted until now is 45,609,593,503 JPY with YOUR bitcoin price fixed by the trustee in 2014 at 50,058.12 JPY (~471 USD). All this because the trustee wanted to be "in compliance with Japanese Bankruptcy Laws." not taking into account the reality of deflationary crypto assets.
After the current sell-of by the trustee, he has a total of 44,952,982,218 JPY in fiat assets almost enough to pay all the accepted claims of creditors by fixed price of 50,058.12 JPY (~471 USD) per BTC.
2. All Bitcoin Cash and other forks that belongs to creditors has just been unilaterally confiscated by the trustee's decision in favor of Mark Karpeles and other Gox shareholders with the following decision on page 12 par. II.3 of latest meeting report:
"It is my understanding that the cryptocurrencies split from BTC of the bankruptcy estate belong to the bankruptcy estate."
Do you see where this is drifting?
3. Moreover, the trustee in the last creditors meeting report on page 12 paragraph II.2 Says:
"I plan to consult with the court and determine further sale of BTC and BCC." https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20180307_report.pdf
With the trustee now playing a role of amateur shady surprise trader on open markets, we are in a worse situation then we have thought. Just FYI, this "trader" have panic sold 18,000 (50%) of all BTC he sold at near bottom prices at around February 5 crashing the market even further. If this is not a blatant market manipulation then this is utter incompetence. See this: https://twitter.com/matt_odell/status/971432146656202752
So at the current trajectory the trustee is planning to give ~24,750 user victims of Mt.Gox fiasco ~45 billion JPY (~430 Million USD) and Mark Karpeles with other Gox shareholders the remaining 166,344 Bitcoin with 168,177 Bitcoin Cash with the remaining forks!
Is this justice? Does this scenario suit US? NO!
All this bogus conduct is justified by the trustee "to be in compliance" with existing outdated Japanese bankruptcy laws.
Common sense, justice, moral values, honor or any other value besides what's in the outdated "Japanese bankruptcy law" does not play any role here. These people dragging feet for years while letting Mark Karpeles get away with the biggest scam in crypto history. Remember the "it's only technical" explanations while continuing to accept deposits from his own users while he perfectly well knows that his company is INSOLVENT?
Now it got to the point that this masterpiece Mr. Karpeles claims that because the remaining fiat value of btc left is much higher today then the value of all the btc his company possessed in 2014 it is somehow makes Mt.Gox "solvent". Huh? Didn't he loose more than 75% of all crypto assets he held and this state remains to this day? Yes? Then his company is INSOLVENT! Period.
Any other type of bogus calculation to make a thief rich and proud of himself on the misery of tenth's of thousands of users whose trust he has abused is nothing short of preposterous and should be challenged in the supreme court at the very least!

Proposals

So what can be done? I propose the following:
A. Prepare what ever necessary legal proposal to change the bankruptcy law in Japan to take into account the new reality of deflationary monetary assets/currencies.
The Japanese bankruptcy law as it stands today is one sided, outdated and not reflecting on the reality of existence of appreciating (deflationary) assets like crypto, some stocks, real estate in a growing market.
We need a specific change that when the bankruptcy deals with holding appreciating assets then the initial asset exchange rate to JPY ($483) will be used as an "assessment" price only to determine the Pro-Rata % amount of each creditors portion of the assets at the time of bankrupt entity's collapse.
The "actual" exchange rate will be determined by the assets price at the time of liquidation of those assets for JPY or distribution.
In this case the creditors will receive their rightfully owned percent of the assets in the time of distribution/conversion. This is the only just way to avoid a scenario when a bankrupt insolvent entity suddenly claims to become "solvent" during the process of bankruptcy proceedings because of prematurely determining the exchange rate of the assets before hand.
B. Prepare what ever needed application to Japans supreme court to freeze any distribution to Mt.Gox shareholders until the necessary amendments to the bankruptcy law are passed.
C. Stop the Mt.Gox trustee trader from selling more BTC in a surprise and anonymous manner. Until the final ruling by the supreme court about the belonging of the crypto assets held by the trustee either to Mt.Gox creditors or shareholders is decided. The Mt.Gox Trustee has no right to sell or trade with these assets as he sees fit.
D. Prepare a lawsuit against MtGox/sharehoders for unjust enrichment/conversion and get a preemptive lien/garnishment against the distribution that might go to them. (proposed by jespow).
E. We as Mt.Gox creditors are not organized in due manner to effectively enforce our interests. We need one UNIFIED representative body to act on our behalf in this bankruptcy saga.
I propose we set up for all creditors a voting process through which we will be able to elect "Mt.Gox creditors representative counsel". People we absolutely trust to think and act in accordance with the best interests of the creditors. These people can be big creditors (for example, Josh Jones CEO and Founder of Bitcoin Builder), Other people that are not creditors but have proven themselves over the years to be on the side of the creditors like Jesse Powell jespow the CEO and owner of Kraken, he has done a lot over the years to help us. You can read his proposals on here: https://www.reddit.com/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/7dyr74/re_inquiries_about_mtgox_disbursements_and/
Unless we step up our organizational game it's game over. I think the best and easiest for creditors would be communicating by email:
E1. We have a list of all the creditors from the list of acceptance or rejection for all claimants posted by the Mt.Gox trustee.
E2. We need to get from trustee or build an email list of all the creditors to send them periodic communication like monthly news, voting proposals, status updates, password for forum, etc. All this managed by trusted party like Kraken preferably or with oversight by them with unsubscribe option.
E3. We need more than 50% of the creditors to join this list preferably to claim we have the majority of creditors support in courts. Best for this process to be all inclusive not requiring any mandatory financial contributions because of the fact that many investors got themselves into debt and financial hardships by Gox fiasco. If a creditor that was not active until now, can't help financially but can commit his support by voting or pledging some financial support once the successful distribution of BTC is made then this is a big win.
E4. We probably need a new forum. Best would be to allow only the original email addresses of Mt.Gox creditors to set up accounts there to avoid trolls signing up and ruining or influencing our decision making. Also new accounts could be set up for trusted people after review by the moderator and marked as such. Example: Lawyer, People the creditors hire for different jobs, etc.
All of the above together with monthly or weekly updates can create a positive momentum and keep this issue afloat with a lot of new organizational ideas coming in and helping improve our overall chance as creditors to win this battle for the benefit of all of us and the crypto community!
Please keep your comments and info constructive! Suggest names for possible representative council members, ping users, post ideas, let's get this brainstormed.
Pinging for input:
jespow -- Kraken CEO
andypagonthemove --Coordinating Mtgoxlegal.com
P.S. I apologize for the long post. Thank you for your time & contribution!
submitted by -kvb to mtgoxinsolvency [link] [comments]

r/Bitcoin recap - April 2018

Hi Bitcoiners!
I’m back with the sixteenth monthly Bitcoin news recap.
It's easy for news and developments to get drowned out by price talk, so each day I pick out the most popularelevant/interesting stories in Bitcoin and save them. At the end of the month I release them in one batch, to give you a quick (but not necessarily the best) overview of what happened in Bitcoin over the past month. Lots of gems this time around!
You can see recaps of the previous months on Bitcoinsnippets.com
A recap of Bitcoin in April 2018
submitted by SamWouters to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Is China now practically in full control of Bitcoin pricing?

Basically a question in the title and a call for discussion to see if there is a new "issue" for the INTERNATIONAL Bitcoin community emerging.
Given that BTCChina is now trading at a whooping 45% of the total market (and it looks like growing), do you think that we are now might be having potential problem/issue, which is in fact VERY similar to the "mining fork" concerns (which is when a single mining group takes over the network)?**. In this case, a "single group" (single country based) is practically "taking over" the price determination.
Basically, besides now being pretty much the only and the main entity "dictating" the Bitcoin price (this is a fact), all and any China issues related to Bitcoin (good or bad) are now automatically become everyone's issues/problems.
What do you think?
submitted by Ponulens to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

BITCOIN DUMP WARNING - Bitcoin Today [July 9th 2020] Today in Bitcoin (2017-07-26) - Mt. Gox Hack Solved? BTC-E Down, Admin Arrested Craig Wright HACKED MT GOX! Bitcoin LAST CHANCE! Stock Market TUMBLE! Crypto News Bitcoin Price CRASH! Ethereum Analysis! MT Gox Settlement!? Risk Management Tutorial! Bitcoin TA Bitcoin price forecast for Today. BTC/USD, XBT/USD

Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash amounts will be paid to crypto exchanges. Other cryptocurrencies will be converted to fiat. Mt. Gox was once the biggest Bitcoin exchange. By 2014, it was handling more than 70% of global Bitcoin trading volume. It closed down in February 2014 after suffering an extended hack of 650,000 Bitcoin—worth $4.3 billion today. 3 Reasons Bitcoin’s Price Could Soon Rise to $10K. Omkar Godbole Jul 23, 2020. After a rise over $9,500 Wednesday, bitcoin looks set to climb toward the psychological price hurdle of $10,000 Bitcoin Address Connected to MtGox Hack Still Has Over 79,000 BTC Unmoved A higher buyout proposal In order to calculate the price of its offer, Fortress multiples the creditor's stake by 15 percent, the total value of lost coins that are available in cash, and then multiples the obtained number by the current BTC price . The price of bitcoin has shot up by more than 15 per cent in recent days, finally breaking above $10,000 after months of stagnation. The cryptocurrency briefly reached above $11,000 on Tuesday but The total value of the transaction was just $0.99. Bitcoin’s price was trading at $0.04951 back then. As per Moody, folks used to trade real-world goods on Mt. Gox for Bitcoin, before real-time trading came into the picture. With that particular trade, July 2010 saw the beginning of the uber-popular real-time BTC price market.

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BITCOIN DUMP WARNING - Bitcoin Today [July 9th 2020]

Trade Bitcoin futures here: https://bit.ly/2RCN3jf and receive a 10% fee discount for 6 months. Loading... Autoplay When autoplay is enabled, a suggested video will automatically play next. Bitcoin and cryptocurrency news - Mt. Gox whale sells, Draper sticks to his $250,000 bitcoin price call, Bakkt Bitcoin Futures, Poloniex soars, Coinbase, Cir... BITCOIN IS SECRETLY FORMING THE MOST BULLISH PATTERN IN YEARS (btc price prediction news today 2020) - Duration: 40:05. Crypto Crew University 28,073 views 40:05 Ethereum Price and bitcoin price did a little price increase today on the live trading markets ETH Price went down almost 10%!!! was Ether the buy of the century? Bitcoin Halving WILL pump Bitcoin ... Former CEO of collapsed MtGox bitcoin exchange arrested in Japan - Duration: ... 0:54. Today in Bitcoin (2017-07-18) - Bitcoin Price Jumps - BIP91 Segwit Activation - Duration: 10:11. World Crypto ...

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