So, yesterday Kristy-Leigh Minehan posted on Twitter that a company named Canaan announced an ASIC that is capable of 0.68W/Mhs
That's 2200Mh/s running at 1500w https://twitter.com/OhGodAGirl/status/1176938519866089473
Here is a list of how it compares to other ASICs and GPUs. https://blog.miningstore.com/blog/ethereum-mining-hardware-for-2019
She used this tweet to promote the need for ProgPoW
Today, I am attempting to explain that Canaan is not a threat to centralize Ethereum mining with their ASICs.
First, I cannot find any information regarding Canaan announcing an Ethereum ASIC other than Kristy's twitter post
There is only one article written about it and it uses Kristy's twitter post as their source. https://cryptoslate.com/ethereum-asic-dominates-gpu-performance/
Nothing on Canaan's website talks about this miner
Nor does Canaan's twitter account mention anything like this.
If we look closely at Kristy's twitter picture, you can see the Canaan Ethereum miner will be called the V10.
I cannot find any info anywhere on this miner.
You would think that if Canaan is unveiling a new product, they would be talking about it more to spread awareness and raise hype, but they aren't.
I mean, they made a big to-do when they announced the A10 bitcoin miner in March, so why are they posting nothing about the V10 ethereum miner. https://twitter.com/canaanio/status/1111513725733724160
And a google search will show many many more articles written about the bitcoin A10 after its announcement.
I'm not saying the announcement isn't real, just that I find it odd that the company isn't talking about it themselves.
Canaan did respond to a tweet from “cryptoState”, the writer's of the article based on Kristy's tweet.
Canaan replied that the v10 is not an official worldwide Canaan product. https://twitter.com/canaanio/status/1177088253431668736
and further in the cryptostate article, Canaan says “It is a little hard to explain, but those are not products designed and built by Canaan engineering. They are products sold by the domestic sales team and are not an official worldwide Canaan product,”
I do not know what that means exactly. If it means it's not an official Canaan product, or that it won't be available worldwide, or what.
But this is the first clue to me that it isn't anything to worry about.
If it's not an official Canaan product, then it doesn't seem like it will have support from Canaan to bring it to market.
It won't be marketed by Canaan, use it's supply chain, it's business resources and contacts, use it's support system, or be built by Canaan.
Next, yes 0.68W/Mhs is more efficient than GPUs, but that isn't all that matters when miners choose the devices to use.
What matters also is how much the machine costs.
If the V10 is price too high, then it's not something to worry about.
Without a price, Kristy can't claim in good faith that the V10 is something Ethereum needs to worry about and a reason ProgPoW needs to be adopted.
I'm not sure how to price the thing, myself, but at current ETH prices and hashrate, it would make $2200 in 4 months.
I think generally ASIC mfgs price their machines to break even in 3-4 months.
So that would be the machine will cost around $2200.
BUT, that's only if ONE machine is running on the network.
The more machines on the network, the less profitable they are.
If we look at the Avalon A1066, it's november batch costs $1390, and has a break-even time of 464 months at current bitcoin prices.
So it seems to me the Canaan V10 will be quite a bit more expensive than $2200.
Which doesn't make it feasible for that many people to buy.
Next, there was no product on display at the New Era Mining Summit, where this product was announced.
Only some graphics of numbers they claim.
Nor can I find any technical documentation talking about how they plan to achieve the advertised hashrate
I tweeted Kristy telling her that this seems, at best, like just an idea to me, to help them raise money and that it takes more than an idea to bring an ASIC to market. https://twitter.com/AltcoinXP/status/1177290387205054464
Kristy then blocked me on Twitter and told me to stop spreading misinformation. https://imgur.com/lWEAWbd
So, now let's talk about the article I replied to her with, claiming that Canaan doesn't have enough funding for this.
Granted, I said this without doing as much research as I could've, but let's see if what I said holds true.
Here is the article I linked in the tweet. https://www.coindesk.com/avalon-bitcoin-miner-maker-canaan-is-plotting-another-ipo-attempt
Notice the date this article was published. March 27th 2019.
Notice that Avalon announce their Bitcoin A10 miner the next day. https://twitter.com/canaanio/status/1111513725733724160
Perhaps to help attract funding from new investors, which the Coindesk article says they haven't been able to bring on any new investors in a long time.
I'm not going to cite the whole article here, read it for yourself, but it generally explains that Canaan is unable to attract new funding.
Also, Xianfu Lui, a 17.2% shareholder in Canaan left the company in February, so I doubt he invested money into Canaan. https://www.coindesk.com/co-founder-quits-avalon-mining-chip-maker-canaan-over-differences
Here are some more Coindesk articles speaking about Canaan trying to raise money. https://www.coindesk.com/huobi-plans-backdoor-ipo-attempt-in-hong-kong-document-suggests
“After mining giant Bitmain’s IPO attempt in Hong Kong was allowed to expire, apparently due to reluctance from HKEX, it’s reportedly now planning to list in the U.S. Another miner manufacturer, Canaan Creative, is also reported to have already confidentially filed in the U.S. after a failed HKEX attempt. “ https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miner-maker-canaan-confidentially-files-for-ipo-in-us-report https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miner-canaans-ipo-likely-delayed-after-hong-kong-filing-expires
“The Reuters report, citing anonymous sources, further said the HKEX and financial regulators in Hong Kong have raised questions over Canaan’s business model, given the volatile nature of cryptocurrencies. As such, the news agency said the IPO might not go ahead this year, since there have been no updates from a listing hearing with the HKEX. “
So seems to be Caanan is having a hard time finding funding for their endeavors. Pretty much every single article on Coindesk about them is about them trying to get funding and failing at it.
So do they have enough money to bring the V10 to market AND bring enough V10s to be a problem?
They would need to produce 45,000 units to get 50% of the Ethereum mining power.
Current network is 197TH/s https://bitinfocharts.com/ethereum/
Currently Bitmain is estimated to have produced less than 20,000 units since the Antminer E3's announcement in April 2018. https://www.reddit.com/ethereum/comments/d8fuvj/an_argument_against_progpow_a_day_part_1/f1axc2c/ https://www.coindesk.com/bitmain-confirms-release-first-ever-ethereum-asic-miners
Bitmain being a much larger company than Canaan, it seems unlikely they will produce 45,000 units quick enough to become a problem.
For those of you that don't know, Canaan manages the Avalon bitcoin ASICs and have done so since 2014. Canaan is fulling in charge of Avalon. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon
Maybe I should've said that sooner, I don't know. I'm just typing as I come up with stuff.
But we can look at Avalon's bitcoin past to determine what the future ethereum miner supply might look like. Keep in mind though, this was also during a time when they were well-funded.
I'm not sure what their bank account looks like now, but they have been in the red every year since their existance, so I have to assume they have less money now than when they were releasing bitcoin miners
Avalon announce the A10 March 2019, and started shipping pre-orders in October 2019.
If the V10 follows suit, we won't see a V10 in the hands of miners until April 2020 https://www.coindesk.com/demand-for-new-bitcoin-miners-is-again-outstripping-supply
Ok, I'm done. That's all I put together and why I don't believe the Canaan ASIC that was announced is a concern warranting the immediate adoption of ProgPoW
Thanks for reading.
First, I'd like to apologies for how long this is going to be, but I believe context is everything. submitted by
I'd like to apologize to the Nano community. Since before the re brand I've always cracked jokes about the project, primarily because I can't stand moonbois.. but I digress.
I guess you could say I was early on the Bitcoin chain. I was blown away by the white paper and mined coins before ASICs we're even a discussion. Never got rid of them or anything, just thought it was an amazing concept to me since I had been repeatedly jacked around by a few banks. However, as a recurring theme life happened and I fell out of it completely. A few years went by when someone brought it up to me and when I asked how much it was worth, I almost had a heart attack. Probably shouldn't have spilled beer on the laptop holding my address and key. It didn't even cross my mind when I threw it out..
So I was back, other projects were on the come up and I took interest. Thought they were great, still do.. But I couldn't wrap my head around a lot of it. I'm familiar with code like I am around the block of an engine, but I'm not a mechanic. I couldn't fathom having to use a calculator to figure out how much gas I needed to send 100 coins of X. Thought I did it right and boom... Dust. The rage. Made some good strides and learned from previous mistakes, but I was still somewhat upset with decisions made within these projects. Who would think that was okay? Life happened again and I dropped out for quite awhile again to return back to a colleague at work mentioning BTC at around 9K. I quietly (I don't mention to many people about how involved I've been) checked out my addresses and was blown away. So I was back.
Yeah I made gains (lost a lot too), but I was already well on my way in life and career and didn't need the rocket in some dream of a lambo (Masi's are better). I just wanted all of this to work. Again, it seemed like it was too hard to do anything, move things around... Dust here, dust there.. None the less, I learned more. Taught myself some code just so I could understand the githubs.. No desire to code, just wanted to learn. The dream I saw a few years ago was growing and I felt optimistic. Stuck around for a long run and then life happened again.
Came back at probably the best time in late summer 2017. You want to talk about diversification... I just (today) burned a stack of papers with private keys written down to projects I forgot even existed. The mayhem! Anyway, won some lost some yeah yeah everyone has those stories....
I was still frustrated because that image I had in my head when I was a bit younger was not really fulfilled. Man, these moonbois, let me tell you. At the time and shortly after cracking jokes and having fun was basically my MO (I'm very sarcastic, still am). But yet again, life happened and I let everything just sit where the chips were.. With the exception of those burned out GPUs and the S9's. They went into the trash.
Life gave me a nice little easy path more recently and I've been poking my head around again. The moonboi epidemic is definitely at an ATH. But where the hell was this image I had years back and now and why did it seem like it died? Too many scams? Too many hacks? Too much smoke and mirrors? The founding idea is/was so perfect?
But I wanted that image. The past couple weeks I've been being my sarcastic ass and ripping a bit on Nano. I saw an actual well thought out post on Reddit and thought “Alright, that's pretty well said. Let me hear this out.” So I took a look. Thought it was better put together than other projects so I lurked around.
Today in the daily general I asked for a laymen's approach. I didn't need it, but I wanted to see what would be thrown at me. I was impressed. I saw on another thread about Natrium and a faucet... DAMN, that was fast. Alright I thought, let's dabble. So I did what I always do.. Took a little BTC to the exchange, picked up some nano, set up the ledger and mobile app and tested some stuff out.
Do you know the feeling after everything I just said to send 10 Nano from the exchange (including fee) to a mobile wallet, to the ledger, back to the mobile wallet and then back to the exchange and in the end... still have 10 Nano? In under less than I don't even know.. as fast as I could copy and paste it?!
I called for my wife took her phone and sent myself 10 Nano back and forth. Man am I an asshole. I'm not “In” so to speak, because honestly, at this point. I don't care about prices. I just want to use the shit. Life happens, I want to be able to continue down life and use this shit. The last time I actually used BTC for anything was in 2014.
BTC is digital gold for me.. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah... Sounds like some WSJ headline, I know. But it's been a good hedge against inflation for what's it worth. But during that second to last time I was back.. the Tx fees were unbelievable. Store of value, all the way, buying a snickers bar? No thanks mate.
I'm actually late to meet a friend at the bar for our weekly pint, was gonna just send this, but he's a moonboi. One sec. Lol --- 45 min later --- Alright, at the pub. Got him to download Natrium. We're now gonna just buy eac hother drinks for the next few hours.
I have some questions regarding decentralization.. bottle necking, spam transactions, but I can ask them in discord I guess. My only fear is that this could be replicated by Chase/BofA etc, but then again, I kind of left them years ago for a reason.
I'm sorry, okay. I'm sorry I was a sarcastic asshole. This is by far the closest thing I've wanted in a very long time. Send 1 Nano.. Get 1 Nano. Who would have thought. I'm going back to darts, but before I go...
- Can someone send me something on how to set up a node? Walk through maybe?
- Mods should pin this. I don't care about worthless internet points. Truth is I'm on my 9th or 10th Reddit account. So, I'll retire this one as soon as I hit send. But I think there is a valuable lesson from my time in this crazy town.
I'm not getting rid of my BTC and “going all in for the moonbois”. But I'll definitely be using my Nano. Whenever or wherever I can.